Chev EK

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EK283
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Re: Chev EK

Post by EK283 »

Hi Clay,

Yes its a HT wheel but I have a aftermarket one I'm going to use, I don't dare put it on yet in case it gets damaged real leather you know !

Hi Rosco,

The spots in the paint are like hair strands with no colour and I have sanded them out before so hopefully this time as well. The hardener reacts quickly to moisture especially when humid and clumps together when in spray form before it hits the panel.This is why you don't want to breath the stuff because it sets in your lungs due to the moisture content. If you look at POR15 its the moisture that cures it, isocyanate dangerous stuff.

Greg
So many cars so little time!
rosco
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Re: Chev EK

Post by rosco »

Certainly is, Greg - nasty as all heck.
I haven't had the "hair stands" effect (yet)... but I've certainly had the humidity blisters/dimples.....
It really doesn't make sense, but we do it... get duped into spraying when we know we shouldn't..... all that rubbing, to waste... and more to come..

Sometimes, with acrylic - using a "hot" thinners will reduce the chance of humidity blisters... but, a wise person will simply wait for a better day.

None of us are going anywhere at present.... plenty of time for that "better" day to present itself...

frats,
Rosco
EK283
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Re: Chev EK

Post by EK283 »

Morning guys,

This was yesterdays effort, the dynamat is not a 5 minute job took me most of the day. Plenty of shapes in the EK floors, Holden were still engineering the floor pan for strength back in those days.
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First rub down of the guard, not so bad might get away with one more hifill and rub.

Greg
So many cars so little time!
rosco
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Re: Chev EK

Post by rosco »

The guard looks very close, Greg..... just a few little lows there that I can see.
Personally, I have left my floor "au natural"... the "moonwalk" insulation I fitted under my carpet is removable - I prefer to be able to see what is underneath at the ease of simply lifting it up. It may not afford the sound absorption that Dynamat does... but there is so much noise in my old bus at highway speed - it would probably be wasted...

Keep going, looking forward to some color.. as, undoubtedly you are too....

Do my beady little eyes spy another right hand guard laying on the deck ouside?

frats,
Rosco
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Errol62
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Re: Chev EK

Post by Errol62 »

Nice work. Couple of those wheel nuts look a bit low.


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EK283
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:51 pm
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Re: Chev EK

Post by EK283 »

Clay,
Wheel nuts are in the grates somewhere !! Only joking 2 will do until I drive it

Rosco,
Good observation, I used the guard as a template for the badge drilling on my new guard. This guard was on my car and looked fine for many years until the bubbles started !! It was repaired back in the 70's by a reputable panel shop after my grandfather had a mishap one afternoon clipping another car at a stop sign.
A bit of proof that rust does start under filler although there is plenty of moisture traps in this part of the guard, and plenty of bog as well.
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Greg
So many cars so little time!
ardiesse
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Re: Chev EK

Post by ardiesse »

Greg,

I'm guessing that bog was viewed as the wonder cure after its introduction. Sledgehammer the panel out, slap the bog on, sand it back, paint. The customer isn't Clark Kent, and can't see what's beneath.

Did you say "reputable panel shop"?

Rob
rosco
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Re: Chev EK

Post by rosco »

Greg, the "70's".... we were learning a lot about bog back then...
The beater's choice was the traditional panel putty.. which was simply very thick paint with some extra fillers in it....
If applied in copious amounts - it shrank.... or worse - cracked or split open.... it was a stop-gap filler that sort of sat somewhere in no-mans land between the traditional lead filler and the latter plastic..
Plastics, back then were yet to earn a reputation - many feared them, even joked about them.. but, as we know today - they quickly became the preferred filler and quality developed over the ensuing 50 years.... and we still use them...

Sadly, back then - not a lot was known about preparation for ensuring the plastic filler would stay "stuck" to repairs...
As we very well know now - any traces of rust, dirt or anything "loose" was a time-bomb in waiting...
Once the filler broke away - the dreaded rust began to explore and geographically map the unknown world.... to far reaching sympathetic reaches .... as shown in your pic...

We also did not know about attack from behind our own lines back then either... failing to seal the other side of a repair allowed attack from mounting holes and voids in the metal joints at rear....

Your pic reveals all of this...

At the end of the day, even a "reputable" panel shop had a philosophy - labour hours vs repair longevity.... back then, depending on the state of the rest of the vehicle - the repair only had to outlast the likely demise... and a relatively quick process of rough clean, apply, sand and paint was the usual....

If they had incorporated just one further step - the likelihood of the damage shown would more than likely have endured.... and that stage was to de-oxidine and then seal out joints/voids and the rear of the repair... in total, perhaps another 15 minutes to the job... but, they didn't.

It is for this very reason, that I prefer to do my own body work where needed.... I believe I have an appreciation of the outcome - and commit much time and effort to such repairs and refurbs to ensure that I need not revisit the area....

Finally, I wouldn't throw that guard onto the scrap pile yet.... it looks grim, but with a MIG or even TIG for smaller areas - wonders exist which can make that guard serviceable .... with the exception of panel repair sections now available.. many folk in this forum would snavel up this guard if push came to shove as a result of a prang... We see this with dog-leg repairs which are effected to literally "missing" metal - only holes to work with.... this guard is far from that stage...

frats,
Rosco
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Brett027
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Re: Chev EK

Post by Brett027 »

Hi Rosco, was starting to miss you!
Sage advice as usual.
Stay safe. B

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Sucker for a rusty bomb
rosco
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Re: Chev EK

Post by rosco »

Thanks Brett - computer problems continue... getting there, but it takes me off air from time to time....
I believe I can spruke a little bit on repairs.. I have experienced the "wrong" turns... and leaned the "right" ones..
That blasted "stop putty"... I had my share of that... might be ok if used as a build thickness no more than half a match... go beyond that - and time will reveal how much it can shrink....
The old way was to use a "card".... and gauge the depth of the area to be filled....
With the advent of plastics, and later the reo-filled heavy build ones.... the old card method soon gave way to plastering it on ensuring the proper mix of hardener was thoroughly stirred in... with almost gay abandon.. (have to be careful using language like that these days)...

The even later "fine fillers" which are used to bring the finished substrate up to almost ready for primers was a further boon.... the K&H "gold" fine filler is one such example... very easy to sand using fine paper. but of sufficient hardness to marry the coarse sanded traditional plastic filler to primer so that even the best of the trade are pressed to find repairs....

We must not forget the "magnet" brigade here - they deserve mention..... with the innovation of plastic.. and the likely result that it would fall out.... some clever Mary came up with the idea of using a fridge magnet to locate any filler repair... this was fine, but it was countered with "metal filler" ... particles.. originally, they were iron or steel ... and we all know that primer does not seal out water.... magnets stuck to it.. but it didn't seem to do likewise to the surrounding repair layers when that "steel" began to rust.... and so, we now have "stainless" metal filler.... which has just enough "iron" in it for a magnet to stick - but which won't rust to the degree that it will either stain or cause layers to break away....

In today's (2020) terms... plastic fillers are a great path to permanent repairs.. they are, for the most - a great quality product and the automotive world of home repair would be very hard pressed to find something more suitable....
I shudder to think of having to go back to "leading" a repair... that was a craft - one which I am very happy to state I came along too late to have suffered.....

frats,
Rosco
rosco
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Re: Chev EK

Post by rosco »

Forgot to mention, and too lazy to edit the above.... plastic fillers when using acrylic..... danger! beware!

I am now keen to use 2K primer then acrylic primer and finally acrylic top coat as my practice...

The reason I want to go with a 2K primer is to "seal" everything underneath.. before going back to acrylic....
As you would be aware.. if acrylic is applied either too "wet", "thick" or using too "slow" a thinners - the surface will stay wet for a much longer time for the thinners to flash off....

The areas which stay wettest longest - are those with plastic fillers in them... even a number of coats of acrylic primer down below the current surface..
These "wet" areas show up later.. when the acrylic top coats are applied... the areas without filler absorb some of the thinners and this helps fuse the layers together... they then evaporate at an even rate... and we don't get any appreciable areas of difference... let's get back to the areas with plastic under them..
These areas stay wet longest... because the thinners can't penetrate the plastic... and the relatively thin layer of primer will not absorb the added coat... it will be the last to dry... and you get "wet" edges on the periphery... if anything, that extra "wet" seems to form something similar to a "cliff".... as the deeper layer of acrylic surrounding the plastic filled area "wicks" wet thinners into it...

This may not show up all the time... when spraying... but, sadly - it might show up in the colour coats.. and that is where the real problem starts to arise.... that blasted plastic area will simply not flash off as fast as the surrounding area... and if we go ahead and run another wet coat over the panel.... if the plastic filled area has not flashed off sufficiently - we'll get runs...

For these very reasons - I now want to play with sealing panels off with a 2K primer.. then go back to an acrylic... as we have been discussing in another thread... (sorry Greg - I've swamped this one ... again)...

frats,
Rosco
EK283
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Re: Chev EK

Post by EK283 »

It's all Good Rosco ! Love the read whatever its about.

So today was a nice day and I decided to spray another coat of hi fill over the last rub back.

Hopefully this will be the last !!!!

This guard has taken a bit of work, steel repairs deoxidine then epoxy primer. Skimmed with filler then rubbed back again and then re epoxied with 3 coats of hi fill wet on wet. Rub number one was done a couple of days ago.

This is the second application of hi fill, 3 good coats and i will let it dry for a day or two then rub again. If its ok then basecoat then clear, same thing wet on wet after flash off.
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I can't believe it ! Not one bit of dust, spots or anything !!!! We will wait for the final coat to cop all that no doubt !!!

Greg
So many cars so little time!
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Errol62
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Re: Chev EK

Post by Errol62 »

Fingers crossed mate


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rosco
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Re: Chev EK

Post by rosco »

Absolutely, Greg..... if you have a fault free run in primers - more than likely, you'll get punished with the top coats.... trying to keep 2K free of any air borne debris outside is a fait accompli... if you can achieve it.... acylic is not so bad - and unless it buries deep - it will rub out if only on the surface.
For many reasons, I don't like pearls... or the previous flakes - "wonders" can be performed with solid acrylics... if you put enough on.

I have precious little experience with clears - but understand they are softer than the base.... if blocking back, it is of utmost importance not to break through them completely... I have heard of nightmare repairs when this has been done... knowing just how much clear is left when rubbing back is an art in itself... one which I have not yet had to suffer...

Pick your day, and stand guard..... if there is the tiniest of bugs around - they will find your wet panel.... and the temptation to pull them out of it usually amounts to much greater damage.... I don't believe there is one of us who's blood pressure and tension doesn't hit the peg after seeing a perfect coat of paint go down onto a panel... it's a balance between sheer joy - and concern.... seems, if you stuff up a coat - any bugs seen in the air don't cause the same stress - they seem to know you're not interested in them once they see a spoiled job .... and, it goes further to say - if you don't stuff up a coat and nail it.... bugs will attack...pesky little critters... let them eat your fruit and vegies... roses - whatever... keep them happy to stay away....

frats,
Rosco
EK283
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Re: Chev EK

Post by EK283 »

Sunny windy day in Sydney today.

What better time to do rust repairs !!!

I left this door to dead last just in case I found a better one along the way, but today was the day for rust removal.

The inside channel bugger, had to chop the centre out to get to it.
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While it was open I treated inside where its hard to get with rust converter and paint.

Also left a hole for future rust proofing between the two panels,

Anyway time for prep and paint after lunch !!

Greg
So many cars so little time!
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