Lies about HR's and FB/EK's brake conversions

[Finny]

OK have now done the HR disc brake front end conversion.

I was told I needed to put HR rear wheel cylinders on the back.
I was also told I would need HR drum shoes to go with it.
Was told it would all fit OK. Everything on the car was EK original, Diff, Backing plate, drum, etc.

Brake specialist place happily sold them to me and confirmed that the cylinders will bolt on and yes need the new shoes to go with the different cylinders. (Same place that I visited several times trying to get the drum brake front end working without leaks, I gave up on that in the end.

Liars, Liars, Liars....................
Or am I just a fool...............................

OK, so there is no way these are going to bolt on. Not even close.


Physically won't fit this way, no space.


Could fit this way but with significant modifications and cutting, drilling, etc.


What do I really need to do.
I've bought EK front and rear drum cylinders and shoes, Now HR disc front and HR rear cylinders and shoes. What next.

[mrs ratbox]

you should have asked here first experts pfft what you need is a EJ/EH/HD/HR diff housing and backing plates and possably the brake pipes as well, not sure about the EJ/EH backing plates but you can use torana

[Devilrod]

EJ/H backing plates will be fine. I used a complete EJ diff in mine, swapped out the grey diff centre and slave cylinders and put new shoes which look very familiar to yours in Finny.

Gotta love so called experts....

[Finny]

It was some time ago, but I'm sure I asked on the forum also, and I checked previous posts on similar topics.

I reall many different responses.

Don't touch the back end, the brakes will be OK as is.
Must change or put proportioning valve in.
Use HR rear cylinders only.
Need HR rear shoes if changing cylinders.
FB/EK brake lines are OK to use with HR, don't need to change.
Swap the whole rear end to HR diff.
Put in a volvo rear end (disc brake rear also)
I'll now add, swap rear end, but can be from EJ up to HR.

So, can I just add the backing plates ? Or will this also affect the handbrake, and other things.
If I swap the entire diff to HR, will it go straight on ? Which is easier ?
If I'm going to swap the diff, is there a preference on model, for getting the best economy/performance, ratios etc ?

[Trev]

After being lead astray by us before I'm suprised you want our opinion again , Trev .

[Dee]

Hi Finny,
sad to hear you been done.

This is what's in mine and it works.

HR disc front end - think yo done that bit OK?

Rear - EH housing
HR backing plates
HR disc matching wheel silinders and shoes
HR rear brake bits - all what was in there which came with the shoes and backing plates - I got rid of the auto adjuster stuff - just wind it up a bit every now and then.

The handbrake cable I have is too short - I used an EK one - and it's too short - you can have a longer one made up.
I had to put in a middle bit to join the two - but will fix that up sometime.

I'm trying to think if there was anything else - you'll need HR disc wheels - your EK ones won't go over the rear drums - they bind up as you tighten them.
And - I can't remember this exactly, but you'll have to make sure the wheels will go over the front calipers - these calipers have two pistons and they usually catch a lot of blokes out when they get fancy wheels.

I know my EH housing has the break line conncetion on the wrong side - they did that with EJ and EH then moved them back to the same side as FB EK on the HD HR.

I;m pretty sure your EK break line and hose will fit straight up to a HD or HR rear axle housing - EJ EH will fit and take the backing plates and shoies and handbrake cable but the connection pipes across the housing may have to be swapped around to fit - I think this is waht I did - its been a long time - I know I didn't have to go buy anything - made do with what I got with the EH housing and HR rear drums and backing plates.

Later model silinders and shoes and stuff won't fit to EK - the holes are all different and I think there's ather stuff in there that just don't work - shoe retainers and allsorts of adjusting stuff - those holes are wrong way up - at the top and later stuff at teh bottom
I dunno where you got told that - you didn't get it from me - if I did put something up a while ago.
If it's in one of my posts - I must have been writing it wrong or so it could be read wrong..

Hope this helps - and I hope I didn't give you the wrong stuff..?
Tell me if I did and I'll get rid of the whole post I put up..

Dee

[mrs ratbox]

you will have hand brake issues as stated above, it's one of those things easy to do hard to explain
and sometimes you can get TOO much information especially when there are lots of people with different opinions and ideas

[Finny]

Ratbox - thanks for the info, always appreciated.

Devilrod, thanks for feedback, may come in handy if I can find an EJ diff.

Trev, the devil you know. Who else would i ask. This is still the best place for info in Australia.

Dee, lots of info, thank you. Don't recall anything different from you in the past Think I'm just getting confused.

Finny, shut up and change your writing tone or people will think your whining like an old falcon diff. (Yes that's a note to myself)

Yes Ratbox, too much info vs not enough. I really do appreciate all advice given from everyone. Lots of experience and lots of hard learnt lessons out there. I know that when I'm finished I'm going to be able to add a lot of my own. I seem to manage to pull apart and put back together everything 3 times before it works, So I'm getting really good at each stage.

Looking forward to growing skin back on my knuckles.
PS. Don't try to push an engine lifter with your foot and slip and kick the metal frame with the top of your instep (especially if you have taken off your shoes). Hurts like hell, bleeds, swells like a golf ball and makes you write nasty posts.

[Dee]

It's a bit hard sometimes when a lot of people put stuff up - I konw I get confused with some of it until I read only what one person has writeen.
I think its important to look at each post on its own and not a continuation of what the last person has written - thats how I get confused - reading it like a book - it doesn't read along like that.

Another think I remembered - the rear uni joint - you'll need the different type as the later diff centres used U bolts to hold the uni onto the diff pinion.

And the master silinder - you gotta take out the check valve - or you won't get your brakes to come off after you put them on - there isn't enough return pressure spring force in the booster to push the fluid back through that check valve -
The check valve looks a bit like a big bent thimble - it has about 10 or 12 holes through it and a rubber flap - thats the check - take it out if you are running a booster.
There isn't one in a clutch master silinder either for the same reason - no slave silinder return spring.

There's probably more - but I can't think of it..

Dee

[Devilrod]

Not sure but I think you may have done what Dee was describing, reading a few posts together. Pretty sure the basic theme has been to make sure the brakes are all matched. As to how they go together that may vary a little.

I won't add to the confusion other than to say the Hand brake cable is an easy fix. Greensborough Cables (I think thats there name, do a search as I mentioned them awhile ago) can make a cable to suit. Tell them what diff and car you have and he'll make it to suit. Same for speedo cable. ie: EK sedan, EJ diff and brakes. Bolts straight in no drama's and next day service too! Well in Vic by mail it was.

[thropzed]

Hey Finny, Where are you in Nth Bris? If ya want I can come over with the van and show ya. I'll bring my parts list of what was put into it as well!
Cheers Theo Z...........

[Finny]

Theo, I'm at Burpengary.

If you want to come for a drive that's great, but I'm also very happy to drive, so don't go out of our way. I'll send you a pm.

[Finny]

OK, I'm back on the topic again.

Looks like I may be able to get a EH or a HR rear end.
Which one is better/easier ?
What changes need to be made, and will I need to collect a number of other items ? which is easier ?

[mrs ratbox]

EH would be easiest to put in as it's the same at the sadles, other than that they're pretty much the same i'm pretty sure

[Finny]

Thanks Ratbox.

From what Dee posted earlier, if I use the EH rear end, than I still need to find HR backing plates ? Would it be easier just to use a HR rear end and the extra bits to convert it ?

Dee mentioned removing the check valve from the master cylinder. I read a how too article, which advised that you needed to use a HR Master cylinder and you can tell the disc one because they have "Disc" stamped on them. Does removing the check valve do the same thing ?

After that's done, do I need to find new wheels to suit ?

I have spoken to the engineer I was going to use. He suggested that a Volvo disc brake rear end would be the preferred option, or using a dual master cylinder. Being a manual with limited space I thought that might be a bit too hard, but he thought they came out with them ????