So I've stripped down my engine to fix a sticky valve, and as usual a whole heap of problems have shown themselves.
So I need to buy various engine compnents such as:
harmonic balancer'
water pump
rings/bearings
timing gear
clutch
etc etc
my question is is repco a good place to buy these parts?
just the balancer is going to cost $120 or so
Is there a cheaper way?
Thanks for any advice
Greg
best place to source engine parts?
G'day Greg,
Are we talking grey motor or red motor here??
If grey motor, I believe the red motor harmonic balancers will fit?? and are much cheaper than grey motor original ones if you aren't a perfectionist.Grey motor water pumps are available via an ebay seller for $110 buy-it-now price which isn't a bad price at all.Rings,bearings, try Repco or Rare Spares perhaps.
JP Pistons make alloy grey motor timing gears for around $200 for the set or you can get NOS fibre gears on ebay here and there for around $50 to $100 or so.
It appears that no-one makes grey motor clutches anymore as far as I can determine but I found a place in Maitland N.S.W that will reco your old clutch assembly for around $169 or so.
I bought a new grey motor clutch throwout bearing and carrier assembly today from my local bearing supplier for $41.
You will have more success finding red motor parts however the success rate will depend on which red motor you are after the parts for.You will have better success getting most parts for 202,186,179,173 than you will getting parts for 161,149 and 138 red motors.
Hope this info is of help,
Terry.
Send me a PM if you want the contact details of the grey motor clutch reconditioners in Maitland.
Are we talking grey motor or red motor here??
If grey motor, I believe the red motor harmonic balancers will fit?? and are much cheaper than grey motor original ones if you aren't a perfectionist.Grey motor water pumps are available via an ebay seller for $110 buy-it-now price which isn't a bad price at all.Rings,bearings, try Repco or Rare Spares perhaps.
JP Pistons make alloy grey motor timing gears for around $200 for the set or you can get NOS fibre gears on ebay here and there for around $50 to $100 or so.
It appears that no-one makes grey motor clutches anymore as far as I can determine but I found a place in Maitland N.S.W that will reco your old clutch assembly for around $169 or so.
I bought a new grey motor clutch throwout bearing and carrier assembly today from my local bearing supplier for $41.
You will have more success finding red motor parts however the success rate will depend on which red motor you are after the parts for.You will have better success getting most parts for 202,186,179,173 than you will getting parts for 161,149 and 138 red motors.
Hope this info is of help,
Terry.
Send me a PM if you want the contact details of the grey motor clutch reconditioners in Maitland.
I can't think what to write here so this will do.
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hammondo
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:20 pm
- State: NOT ENTERED
- Location: Northern beaches - Sydney
Thanks Terry,
its a grey motor 138 I'm doing
interesting about the harmonic balancer, I will have to see if anyone can confirm this.
unfortunately I don't have an old clutch, I can't beleive no one makes grey motor clutches, considering how many old holdens are still getting around. Will have to put the word out for a used one I can get reconditioned.
can you give us any details about the thrust bearing and carrier? I may need to call your supplier seeing as they obviously know what the score is.
I guess I'll just go repco for the rest
thanks again
Greg
its a grey motor 138 I'm doing
interesting about the harmonic balancer, I will have to see if anyone can confirm this.
unfortunately I don't have an old clutch, I can't beleive no one makes grey motor clutches, considering how many old holdens are still getting around. Will have to put the word out for a used one I can get reconditioned.
can you give us any details about the thrust bearing and carrier? I may need to call your supplier seeing as they obviously know what the score is.
I guess I'll just go repco for the rest
thanks again
Greg
I thought Red & Grey Clutches are the the same, or at least completly interchangableFB MAD wrote:It appears that no-one makes grey motor clutches anymore as far as I can determine but I found a place in Maitland N.S.W that will reco your old clutch assembly for around $169 or so.
I've been wrong before though
Cheers
Jeff
bursons sell balancers for grey motor,cheaper than rare spares , make sure you tell them wide belt fx fj,or narrow belt fc onward, red motor balancers wont fit, the one you get from bursons look like red motor ones,the clutches are not same but you can fit red clutch to grey may have to grind a little from bell housing to clear when you bolt gear box up make sure engine turns without binding
They are nearly the same Thommo.
Grey motor clutches are an 8 inch plate and red motor clutches are an 8 1/2 inch plate.They are interchangeable in part.
The EH type red motor clutches with the four bolt pressure plates will bolt up as an assembly.As to what models will exactly fit and what ones won't exactly fit is a bit obscure to me.
Sunnytim, I haven't had any experience with the alloy timing gears on a grey so can't speak from experience gained there but have used alloy gears on the reds with no problem at all.Have heard from various blokes that , like you,say that alloy gears are no good on the greys and was wondering how this comes about.My thinking is the alloy would have to be better than the brittle ( when aged) fibre ones??
Steel would be stronger but adds weight to the camshaft assembly then ( probably only a problem in a high reving motor I guess ).
Interested to to know from others experience,
Terry.
Grey motor clutches are an 8 inch plate and red motor clutches are an 8 1/2 inch plate.They are interchangeable in part.
The EH type red motor clutches with the four bolt pressure plates will bolt up as an assembly.As to what models will exactly fit and what ones won't exactly fit is a bit obscure to me.
Sunnytim, I haven't had any experience with the alloy timing gears on a grey so can't speak from experience gained there but have used alloy gears on the reds with no problem at all.Have heard from various blokes that , like you,say that alloy gears are no good on the greys and was wondering how this comes about.My thinking is the alloy would have to be better than the brittle ( when aged) fibre ones??
Steel would be stronger but adds weight to the camshaft assembly then ( probably only a problem in a high reving motor I guess ).
Interested to to know from others experience,
Terry.
I can't think what to write here so this will do.
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hammondo
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:20 pm
- State: NOT ENTERED
- Location: Northern beaches - Sydney
I was just going to get a fibre gear.
I will need to know about the clutch though, Can anyone confirm about the EH clutch, I'm gonna need an over the counter clutch of some kind. Is the extra half an inch going to be a problem if you use both parts?
I'm thinking about getting the short motor done by someone now, my mechanic mate came over today and said the bore were really too worn to put back together for a motor that has to cope with long country trips.
Thanks guys
Greg
I will need to know about the clutch though, Can anyone confirm about the EH clutch, I'm gonna need an over the counter clutch of some kind. Is the extra half an inch going to be a problem if you use both parts?
I'm thinking about getting the short motor done by someone now, my mechanic mate came over today and said the bore were really too worn to put back together for a motor that has to cope with long country trips.
Thanks guys
Greg
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fb cruisin
- Posts: 522
- Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:51 pm
- State: NSW
- Location: Newcastle
Early red motors had a smaller clutch which bolts up the same, grey motor clutches are 8 inch EH/HD clutches are 8 1/2 inchhammondo wrote:I was just going to get a fibre gear.
I will need to know about the clutch though, Can anyone confirm about the EH clutch, I'm gonna need an over the counter clutch of some kind. Is the extra half an inch going to be a problem if you use both parts?
I'm thinking about getting the short motor done by someone now, my mechanic mate came over today and said the bore were really too worn to put back together for a motor that has to cope with long country trips.
Thanks guys
Greg
I fitted one to my FB.
Throwout bearings are the same from FX to HZ.
http://www.fbekholden.com/forum/viewtop ... highlight=
cheers Rob
To be honest, i find all my motor parts are still freely avalible from local peps at wetherill park, if they dont have them, they will spend the time to get them. For some reason, the clowns also give me a trade discount too on top.... should i tell them im into realestate not automotive trades.
Normally new stuff is a lot cheaper than second hand or nos stuff sold at swaps or ebay these days.
My two cents worth.
Terry at dominators at guildford is a legend, tell hims its a grey motor and he will take the time to help. I have had work done there and he is a real gentleman. Cant find his card atm.
I also dont change the bottom crank gear in my worked grey motors, and have never heard a squeel of nosie and the wives tale goes.
If you pm me, i might have some nos carbon fibre timing gears in my shed at my parents place.
Good luck.
Normally new stuff is a lot cheaper than second hand or nos stuff sold at swaps or ebay these days.
My two cents worth.
Terry at dominators at guildford is a legend, tell hims its a grey motor and he will take the time to help. I have had work done there and he is a real gentleman. Cant find his card atm.
I also dont change the bottom crank gear in my worked grey motors, and have never heard a squeel of nosie and the wives tale goes.
If you pm me, i might have some nos carbon fibre timing gears in my shed at my parents place.
Good luck.
master of nothing, leader of nobody.
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hammondo
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:20 pm
- State: NOT ENTERED
- Location: Northern beaches - Sydney
Thanks retro, I might take you up on that.
I spoke to Terry, I will need to drop the motor in for him to have a look before he can give me a quote.
Although to be honest its all starting to get a bit difficult. I'm thinking that although the bores are a bit worn, I might just hone them and throw in a set of rings and hope for the best. Then add timing gear and new lifters, welch plugs, gaskets and seals.
I can always pull the motor out again another time if its too smokey or slappy.
So then I need:
rings - repco
balancer - thursons
timing gear - retro or repco
EH clutch - repco
lifters - repco??
gasket set
Hopefully I will get out of this for a few hundred bucks!
Greg
I spoke to Terry, I will need to drop the motor in for him to have a look before he can give me a quote.
Although to be honest its all starting to get a bit difficult. I'm thinking that although the bores are a bit worn, I might just hone them and throw in a set of rings and hope for the best. Then add timing gear and new lifters, welch plugs, gaskets and seals.
I can always pull the motor out again another time if its too smokey or slappy.
So then I need:
rings - repco
balancer - thursons
timing gear - retro or repco
EH clutch - repco
lifters - repco??
gasket set
Hopefully I will get out of this for a few hundred bucks!
Greg
Greg,
If you throw rings into a worn motor you may as well just give your hard earned money to a charity as the money would be better spent there.
New rings in a worn motor will not work.You would be wasting your time and money.Bit like putting a band aid on a broken leg!!
I know new pistons aren't cheap and rebore costs as well but is definately worth it in the long run.
Years ago, as an apprentice, I rebuilt a 253 that I had in my Monaro.Against the advice or one of the mechanics in the workshop I reringed the motor instead of rebore and new pistons/rings.
Took the time to clean and refit everything and spent a few hundred on the job and a weekend doing it in the workshop.
I wasted my money and time.The motor was just as bad if not worse than it was before I pulled it down (it had cracked rings on 3 of the pistons when I pulled it apart).
I had to pull it apart again, send away for rebore and rebuild and refit it again.This time I did it properly and reaped the rewards for the little bit extra time and expence that I should have done in the first place instead of taking a shortcut.
Best not to take short cuts on an engine rebuild due to economics.Better not to spend the money at all than waste it.
My advice would be to take the engine to the bloke who you've chosen to do the rebuild and get him to measure everything.If he's an honest bloke he'll save you some money if he finds something that is useable as is and doesn't need replacing or machining.
Sometimes you may be VERY lucky if you have a low mile original motor with minimal wear then you may get away with just a re-ring or a previously rebored motor with little miles that might be able to be re-ringed if needed with appropriate size rings,but that scenario would be in a minority of cases.
If you are short of funds and are a bit handy with engines you could to some of the rebuild process yourself to save some $$$
Just trying to help with some advice from experience that may save you some $$$ and time in the long run,
Terry.
If you throw rings into a worn motor you may as well just give your hard earned money to a charity as the money would be better spent there.
New rings in a worn motor will not work.You would be wasting your time and money.Bit like putting a band aid on a broken leg!!
I know new pistons aren't cheap and rebore costs as well but is definately worth it in the long run.
Years ago, as an apprentice, I rebuilt a 253 that I had in my Monaro.Against the advice or one of the mechanics in the workshop I reringed the motor instead of rebore and new pistons/rings.
Took the time to clean and refit everything and spent a few hundred on the job and a weekend doing it in the workshop.
I wasted my money and time.The motor was just as bad if not worse than it was before I pulled it down (it had cracked rings on 3 of the pistons when I pulled it apart).
I had to pull it apart again, send away for rebore and rebuild and refit it again.This time I did it properly and reaped the rewards for the little bit extra time and expence that I should have done in the first place instead of taking a shortcut.
Best not to take short cuts on an engine rebuild due to economics.Better not to spend the money at all than waste it.
My advice would be to take the engine to the bloke who you've chosen to do the rebuild and get him to measure everything.If he's an honest bloke he'll save you some money if he finds something that is useable as is and doesn't need replacing or machining.
Sometimes you may be VERY lucky if you have a low mile original motor with minimal wear then you may get away with just a re-ring or a previously rebored motor with little miles that might be able to be re-ringed if needed with appropriate size rings,but that scenario would be in a minority of cases.
If you are short of funds and are a bit handy with engines you could to some of the rebuild process yourself to save some $$$
Just trying to help with some advice from experience that may save you some $$$ and time in the long run,
Terry.
I can't think what to write here so this will do.
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hammondo
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:20 pm
- State: NOT ENTERED
- Location: Northern beaches - Sydney
bugger
I was told the same thing by someone else too.
will have to rethink
it was a running motor, just had a sticky valve apparently,
the plan was to replace the lifters, and as two of them won't come up I was going to pull the cam, and replace the timing gear, and thought I would have a look at the big end bearings while it was apart (which aren't too bad), the head was also sent off for machining and possible valve regrind. This is when I noticed the ridge was pretty bad and bores worn.
So I guess I could just throw it all back together with new lifters and timing gear, or go the whole hog.
mmmm.....
ok, you've just about convinced me.
I don't mind spending some cash, but if its going to end up being a grand or two then that will hurt a little
I was told the same thing by someone else too.
will have to rethink
it was a running motor, just had a sticky valve apparently,
the plan was to replace the lifters, and as two of them won't come up I was going to pull the cam, and replace the timing gear, and thought I would have a look at the big end bearings while it was apart (which aren't too bad), the head was also sent off for machining and possible valve regrind. This is when I noticed the ridge was pretty bad and bores worn.
So I guess I could just throw it all back together with new lifters and timing gear, or go the whole hog.
mmmm.....
ok, you've just about convinced me.
I don't mind spending some cash, but if its going to end up being a grand or two then that will hurt a little
Thinking of early model mechanics, you can also try rodney grima, at mount vernon/horsley park.
I got all the head work and trick bits from terry king (dominator), then fitted it all myself. Got the car going, drove it around abit, then took the car to rodney for finishing touches, I saved a bit on assembly, but rodney set her up a treat. A bit more money spent for him to give the car a big once over, and the fb drives like new.He even stored the car for me and worked on it after hours to save some dosh.
pm me for a number if you like. As i hade a hard time finding a mecahnic willing to touch a grey at a reasonable price.
I think about three grand to four grand will build you a tough grey motor. remebering i spent about $1500 alone on my head, double spring lifters, larger valves, unleaded conversion (a waste of money), and crack test and port and polish.
I got all the head work and trick bits from terry king (dominator), then fitted it all myself. Got the car going, drove it around abit, then took the car to rodney for finishing touches, I saved a bit on assembly, but rodney set her up a treat. A bit more money spent for him to give the car a big once over, and the fb drives like new.He even stored the car for me and worked on it after hours to save some dosh.
pm me for a number if you like. As i hade a hard time finding a mecahnic willing to touch a grey at a reasonable price.
I think about three grand to four grand will build you a tough grey motor. remebering i spent about $1500 alone on my head, double spring lifters, larger valves, unleaded conversion (a waste of money), and crack test and port and polish.
master of nothing, leader of nobody.