Engine keeps stopping once warmed up

[paperboy]

Hi,

Having an issue with my EK grey, I thought it was a leaking carby issue first, but have just had the carby refurshed completely. It started perfect and idled smoothly once I put the new carby on, then once it warmed up I took it for a drive and it kept stalling, then difficult to start again.

The car will idle no trouble and can be revved in the garage, but if I drive it, after a few hundred metres the motor starts to miss/stutter. I can simulate this in the garage by reving and holding it at half throttle until it starts to break down. It eventually stops as it did out on the road today. Some times it will fire back up to idle but will not rev, just keeps stalling.

Luckily I managed to stumble back to the garage today, start and stopping every 100 metres. The fuel pump seems to be working fine I've changed the fuel filter and air filter. It feels like fuel but I'm not sure.

So onto the ignition system, I have no idea, but once it's cold it seems to idle smoothly. Should I change the leads or plugs? These are of unknown age but look newish as car was previously registered in NSW.

Points and distributor I'm clueless, don't know what to do, or my timing is out?

Any help would be appreciated. Unfortunately I can't drive it to a local mechanic, as it keeps stopping just down the road. I just need it to drive further than 500 metres to get it to a mechanic to fix it.

Regards
Geoff

[Blacky]

Sounds like it could be fuel pump to me - might have a small tear in the diaphragm and will deliver enough fuel under no load but not enough once loaded ? Had that happen to me once .....

[Harv]

Agree - sounds like fuel pump.

To check, run the car until it shuts itself down. Carefully take the air horn off the carb (air filter off, undo the half dozen screws the lift the lid up an inch or so). If there is no fuel in the float bowl, then fuel is the issue.

Could be the fuel pump, blocked fuel lines or a crook needle and seat.

Cheers,
Harv

[paperboy]

Thanks Blacky and Harv for your advice.

I ran the car in the garage on half throttle and it konked out about 3-4 minutes later. So I checked the carby fuel bowl as Harv said and it was dry, no fuel was in it. So I started to pull the fuel pump off and noticed that the two engine bolts weren't very tight they undid very easy??? Could that cause less suction?

Anyway the pumps is off now, what should I do with it? how do I check if it's not working properly? Or should I just get it refurbished with a fuel pump kit?
Regards
Geoff

[Harv]

G'day Geoff,

Good news - it's a fuel problem, and you don't have to hunt around with the dark arts of Lucas electricals, or Bosch spitz and sparken .

If the bolts are loose, the pump can back itself off the cam lobe, and will not pump too well. Would have to be pretty loose though. While it's off, pull off the glass bowl and remove the brass pump strainer. Give it a clean, and then put it back together with a new bowl gasket (Rare Spares Sydney carries them, as does our mate on eBay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-FUEL-PUM ... 405wt_1105).

It's a good idea to check the braided hose on the pump suction - they are reknowned for collapsing internally under vacuum and blocking off fuel. If the fuel tank level is low, take the fuel filler cap off and blow compressed air back to the tank to clear any crap out of the fuel line (don't do this with a full tank of fuel as it will blow out the filler everywhere... ask me how I know ).

To test the pump, you install it back on the car and then disconnect the fuel line at the carb. A tee-piece is put into the fuel line with a pressure gauge on it. You then run the car up, and measure the pressure at the tee-piece (you should get 3.5-4.5 psi). You then take the pressure gauge off, and let the fuel run into a measuring cup while the engine runs on whatever is int he float bowl (you should get at least one pint per minute). I've got the fittings at home to do this test and you are welcome to borrow them, though I am currently on the road for work.

The fuel pump kits are pricey, especially if you have a combined fuel/vacuum pump... damn near cheaper to buy a new pump, unless you want fully original.

Cheers,
Harv

[paperboy]

G'Day Harv,
I pulled the fuel pump off and gave it a clean, everything was in good condition looked like it had been reconditioned already. I ended up removing my fuel filter that was between the fuel pump and carby and replaced it with new fuel line. I also replaced other rubber fuel hoses with new ones and blew compressed air back to the fuel tank. Seems to have done the trick, ran the car last night in the garage and it didn't stop after 5 minutes of revving at half throttle. Checked the carby fuel bowl after and it was full of fuel. Just need to take it for a test drive now and install a fuel filter before the fuel pump. Any idea on what sort of fuel filter I should install?
Thanks
Geoff

[Harv]

Good news.

For a filter, take a wander into SuperCheap and look through their Ryco filters. You want something with a barbed inlet/outlet that is the right size for whatever fuel hose you are using (take a length of the hose with you). Try to avoid the cheap, generic (non-Ryco) plastic ones if you can. No matter what you choose, put hose clamps on it... a fuel leak on the pressure side of the pump can be spectacular .

Cheers,
Harv

[WayneXG95]

I missed this but yes the vacuum advance. Use the commodore injected one. I'll try and post the number tomorrow for ya..
And if you remove the braided fuel line to the pump you have to earth the battery to the body as well as the block.

[WayneXG95]

OK here's what I did, removed the braided fuel line and replaced it with a Commodore/F**d fuel filter
You need to used the fuel injected/EFI type so it doesn't matter what it says on the box.
I used Cooper but I'm sure RYCO has a similar one.
This is the filter on mine.



Filter installed.



Now as you will have removed the braided fuel line which is the secondary earth you need to earth the battery to the body
as well as the engine block.
Mine is to the radiator attachment bolt as you can see.

[Harv]

Nice and neat Wayne .

OK here's what I did, removed the braided fuel line and replaced it with a Commodore/F**d fuel filter
You need to used the fuel injected/EFI type so it doesn't matter what it says on the box.
I used Cooper but I'm sure RYCO has a similar one.

The Ryco equvalent to the Cooper (Wesfilter) WZ200 is Ryco part number Z200.

Cheers,
Harv

[paperboy]

Thanks Wayne & Harv,
Very good advice, the braided fuel line was already gone when I got it, so I'd already had the extra earth installed onto the body, I'm glad I did something right. Will look into fitting one of the commodore fuel filters, what's the reason for using a fuel injection/efi filter over a standard?
Cheers
Geoff

[Harv]

You can run a "carburettor" filter just as readily. The EFI filters tend to be slightly finer (better filtration), and are made for higher pressures (more robust) than the carby ones.

Cheers,
Harv

[paperboy]

Finally took the car for a test drive yesterday afternoon and it kept stalling again and was difficult to restart without stalling straight away. Managed to get it back home, then once I got home it was running ok again, so I took it for another test drive around the block and this time it drove perfectly fine. Any ideas on what I should check next? Could I have crap in the fuel tank and only blocks when its been driven?
Thanks
Geoff

[Harv]

Geoff,

Some things to check (forgive me if some of them sound silly):
a)Take the car for a run until it stops. Quickly jump out and check the glass fuel bowl. If it is full, the problem is in the pump discharge. If it is empty, the problem is somewhere from the pump backwards to the tank.
b) Take off the fuel cap, and check to see if the breather holes are clear, and that the jiggler pin is free to move.

If they are not (or if someone has put a non-vented cap on), then the tank can't breathe. It will pull a vacuum as the engine runs, and starve the fuel pump.
c) Make sure there is fuel in the tank (lots of it). Don't trust the fuel gauge... they are notorious for being wrong.
d) Get underneath and follow the fuel line from the tank to the carb to make sure no-one has installed a fuel filter sometime in the car's past.
e) While you are under there, check for kinked lines or any signs of fuel weepage. Any holes will allow the fuel pump to suck in air, and fail to prime under load. Once the engine stops, the fuel pump gravity fills to some extent.
f) Take the line off the fuel pump suction, remove the fuel cap and blow air back into the tank. Don't do this with a full fuel tank as fuel with blow out the filler.
g) Take the line off the the fuel pump discharge, and blow (with low air pressure!) into the carb throat.
h) Remove and clean the float needle and seat.
i) Replace any braided or rubber hose hose sections, even if only temporarily, with new rubber hose.
j) Pressure and flow test the pump.

Cheers,
Harv

[paperboy]

Thanks Harv,
I really appreciate your help and advice, it's very frustrating I have a nice EK that I can't drive anywhere without breaking down.
Regards
Geoff