black motors

ekdave1962 · Post by **ekdave1962** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:57 am

hi guys i was wondering what the diff was btw red and black motors .. also does the vl 4 speed auto bolt onto red motors ?

Thanks David

Sammy · Post by **Sammy** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:49 pm

ok firstly, as far as i am aware the VL stuff wont fit the holden motors .... atleast not without an adaptor etc....

as for the black motor there are alot of little changes however the main ones that will concern you are the heads are different ....

ok top is a blue/black motor head, you can see the inlet ports differ a fair bit from the red motor ports ....

you can modify extractors to fit onto the blue/black from a red but its not a straight forward swap ....

if inlet manifold and exhaust changes arn't a problem for you then i say go for it ... especially if you want to bolt EFI onto it

all the rest of the stuff, engine mounts, flywheels etc all interchange between the motors ....

ekdave1962 · Post by **ekdave1962** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:21 pm

thanks Sammy just picked up a black motor normal aspertated .. have head and injection sitting in the shed was going to fit it to the 186 will a few little mods to water inlets ..
but and now wondering if i should just fit the black motor with injection ..

.. now one other thing are the autos from VKs and diff to the HR trimatics ?

Trev · Post by **Trev** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:47 pm

ekdave1962 wrote:

.. now one other thing are the autos from VKs and diff to the HR trimatics ?

Same box, Trev

.

Cal · Post by **Cal** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:01 pm

Hey Trev, what happened to your

after Trev?

Trev · Post by **Trev** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:07 pm

Ahh thats better, Trev

.

matches · Post by **matches** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:05 pm

i also think if you fit a black you also have to put all the pollution crap on with it, well in nsw at least.
luke

muddy · Post by **muddy** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:04 pm

or you could paint it red...

Finny · Post by **Finny** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:11 am

Or even better..... Grey......

FCCOOL · Post by **FCCOOL** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:51 am

the disadvantage of a black is you need to run 84-85 emission stuff and the head can crack easier, otherwise its the final and most improved of the holden sixes, if the car wasnt going to be registered a black would have to be the best motor to start with.
I am pretty sure the efi black motor has the same power as a GTR XU1 but its smoother and uses much less fuel.
the carb blacks have a est and a varajet II carb, not many people like them but when street machine did there holden six grunt hunt they found that changing the carb to a holley from a varijet made less power than the varajet, with a red motor replacing the single barrel stromberg with a holley pretty much always makes more power so the varajet cant be to bad if you understand how they work.

FB_Monaro · Post by **FB_Monaro** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:51 pm

you dont need to put polution gear on an FB if i am reading this right

Emission standards for replacement engines
1972 and later model vehicles with substitute engines must meet the intent of the later of the Australian Design
Rules applicable to either:
a) The original vehicle; or
b) The substitute engine.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/ ... v_2007.pdf

FB_Monaro · Post by **FB_Monaro** » Thu May 07, 2009 10:09 pm

The way i read the RTA doc is

upgrade to 138 -149 red motor
update the engine number with RTA

upgrade to 161 - 186 red motor
two speed wipers or 1 speed or 1 speed if min 45 cycles / minute
heater / demister to be fitted
external mirrors
lap/sash seat beats fitted to outsite seating positions
lap fitted to centre seating positions
addional mods such as disk brakes as determined by engineer

upgrade to 202 - 327 motor
as above plus collapsible steering column

which begs to question wtf would you fit a 202 when the same modes are required to fit a 327

ad to this you can fit a 202 to an EH as a owner mod but this is basicly the same floor pan as FX-HR go figure

Sammy · Post by **Sammy** » Fri May 08, 2009 2:53 pm

put simply, if you want to use a black motor head and injection then screw it to an older red motor etc and you will only need to meet the older red motor emissions!

also on the trimatics ... if you can get the vk efi one it is stronger ... it has ribs on the bellhousing whereas the older ones didn't ....

also depending which model box you get the shifter will be on different sides so keep that in mind when choosing!

oldnek · Post by **oldnek** » Sat May 09, 2009 12:09 am

FB_Monaro wrote:The way i read the RTA doc is

upgrade to 138 -149 red motor
update the engine number with RTA
And no engineers report needed.
upgrade to 161 - 186 red motor
two speed wipers or 1 speed or 1 speed if min 45 cycles / minute
heater / demister to be fitted
external mirrors
lap/sash seat beats fitted to outsite seating positions
lap fitted to centre seating positions
addional mods such as disk brakes as determined by engineer

upgrade to 202 - 327 motor
as above plus collapsible steering column

which begs to question wtf would you fit a 202 when the same modes are required to fit a 327

ad to this you can fit a 202 to an EH as a owner mod but this is basicly the same floor pan as FX-HR go figure
difference is that engineers and the RTA workers think that EH stands for EXTRA HORSEPOWER, maybe thats why there is no problem with them.