Are you Bored? Bang for Buck Engine recipe required.

[EK283]

Sorry,

Have to do it, LS, SBC or Barra 6 is the best bang for buck !

I have had countless greys all im afraid in the tip. Common breakage crank at # 1, no matter how they are balanced.

The greys have limits and revs below 6000 is where they are safest.

I am interested although !

[ed.harris]

Yes. someone had to say it.
I have a couple of V8`s with over 600fwhp and another with 800rwhp different manufacturers.

Anyway, the net nanny at work stopped me from posting last week.

I am home now and I ripped the head and the front cover off.
And the J motor is Standard bore with very little lip on the bore.
Good start.
There is no sludge anywhere to be seen, very clean.
I believe I am the first one to pull it apart, core plugs are painted in original paint, no sealer or silcone anywhere, no witness marks on the crank where a puller might have been used.
I haven`t cleaned any of the surfaces yet.
The water jacket don`t look horrible but that is a crap shoot with a 64 year old engine.

Thanks everyone for your input.
Thanks Harv.
I want it to be a reliable fun. peppy grocery getter with reasonable power down low.

I was hoping the Clives 82 was better down low with more free flowing top end than Grace`s ute, I have heard grace`s ute running somewhere.
I will have to concede a Clives 2 is too big.
I am hoping not to instal High compression pistons for the cost but if having the head only bumps the compression up to 8.5 to 1, I will go the Piston route as I believe upping the Compression ratio will allow a milder Cam and achieve better low down power as well.... around 10 to 1.

I am considering going a Package with Galloway, he might have studied HSD products.

Thanks for the guidance, still wondering about the Cam
It needs to be the most user friendly Cam available to achieve the goals and retain flexiblity.
I would prefer to throw more machining at the head and I know the pistons will be between 2 and 3 grand.

Any other Cam suggestions?
A friend who had and EJ back in the day had twin strommies etc suggested 25/65 is what he had.
He said it made a big difference and a slightly noticable Lope.
He was an Auto Electrical Apprentice at the time and sat is drivers Licence in it.

The driving examiner noticed the Cam and said it sounded good!!!
Hahaha.
He passed, the EJ has a Speco floor shift as well.

What does a 25/65 equate to these days?

[ed.harris]

Some pics

[ed.harris]

Can anyone tell if it was running on leaded or unleaded last?
Apart from running on oil on number 6, the left Plug.

[Harv]

Any other Cam suggestions?

Grey cams.jpg (374.53 KiB) Viewed 184 times

Cheers,
Harv

[EK283]

Can anyone tell if it was running on leaded or unleaded last?
Apart from running on oil on number 6, the left Plug.

From my experiences the carbon build up looks like leaded fuel, the unleaded fuel again from my experinces runs much hotter and usually less carbon. You may also see heat effected or at least a black residue around the exhaust valves, which in this case could have, hard to tell.
If the motor was running lots on unleaded you may see valve recession, particularly the exhaust.
Greg

[ed.harris]

Thanks guys,
Thanks Harv I am thinking something similar to the Camtech 639 108 cam. Will that Cam make 125HP?

I have not heard many people talking about Camtech cams?
I think when I mentioned Cams with David a year ago or so, he mentioned Crow Cams?
I am not sure if Clives are still developing Cams and whether anyone has actually performance testing of different Cams using data or if it is word of mouth recommendations?

Thanks Greg, that make sense and explains valve recession on Unleaded. I am amazed how much carbon was in the combustion chambers when I lifted the head off.
So I believe the Engine was last run before 1986.
I believe this engine would have been a runner.

I can't see any signs of overheating in the engine and the head gasket could be original.
This is making me think I could have a crack free block head and crack, fingers crossed.

[Harv]

Thanks Harv I am thinking something similar to the Camtech 639 108 cam. Will that Cam make 125HP?

I have not heard many people talking about Camtech cams?
I think when I mentioned Cams with David a year ago or so, he mentioned Crow Cams?
I am not sure if Clives are still developing Cams and whether anyone has actually performance testing of different Cams using data or if it is word of mouth recommendations?

The table is useful as it is written in order of duration. As duration increases (going down the table) the cams get lumpier, make more power... and are harder to live with in traffic. The descriptions in the second column give you a rough idea of what behaviour you can expect at a given duration range. This will vary a bit from cam-to-cam, but is not a bad guide. Just like you have done, choose a behavior that suits what you want. You can then discuss that behaviour and approximate duration range with a cam grinder. They will then find one of their grinds to suit.

For grey motor cam grinders:
Burt Jones closed in the early 2000's. I spoke to his niece a few years back, but have since lost the contact
Camtech folded around 2020. The business was purchased by Crow.
Crow are still trading.
AFAIK, Tighe closed in December 2025 and the equipment was sold on.
Wade closed in 2014, with the gear sold to Clive. I've got a full list of Wade grinds here somewhere, but the table above shows the grey motor ones.
Clive was bought by M&W engines in 2023 and is still trading.
Waggot is still operating.

Cheers,
Harv

[ed.harris]

Thanks Harv for the comprehensive Canshaft manufacturer history and current status.
That is great information as I now understand why Galloway suggested Crow.
I was sceptical of Crow as 3 of my previous V8 Engine builders did not rate Crow Cams. These V8's were American and these builders recommended Cam Grinders from these manufacturers, usually because there were several dyno results for most Grinds available to compare graphs of power and torque.
Crow purchasing Intellctual property from Camtech makes me feel a little better about Crow.
Grey motor Cam grind performance now appears on here say and aging peoples recollections.
There also many closely guarded secrets, some have been taken to the grave.
My current 3 V8's which have been built over the last 20 years, were all run in on the dyno and a quick performance optimisation tune was done and power runs were conducted for comparison. Data for the builder.
Grey motors do not usually get run in on dynos very often.
Less measurable data is available accordingly.
I get it usually this Dyno time now costs at least $1000.00 for the running in the engine.
This controlled environment minimises risk of damage as it ensures ancillary requirements of the engine is more controlled and usually conducted by experienced professionals.
Afr ratios, timing, temperature, oil pressures are all monitored.
It would be nice if Camshaft grinders could supply real world dyno results on the grey motor grinds.
Galloway do develop quality components for the grey motors. I think the tyrany of distance actually help Galloway survive along with the mining boom in Perth.
I couldn't get hold of David yesterday, I think they are having an extra long weekend.
I am hoping they have some dyno results available for comparison.

Harv, having additional information from guys like you is invaluable and very much appreciated and I will be getting your advice on setting up the twin Strommies.

My last Engine builder, who has now retired was very Anal about the AFR being too fat during the run in period especially when it involves also running in a flat tappet Cam.
All of my V8's are Roller cams mainly for the accelerated ramp angle that Cam be employed in the Camshaft grind but also minimising the risk of wiping a lobe off the Cam, which can still happen anytime particularly if excessive Val e spring pressures are used.
Not to mention the pain in the ass changing valve springs out after running in if lighter springs are used during Run in.
So, I am now thinking if how to run the Engine in while ntroducing a new induction system.
I don't want to stop and start the Engine while breaking in the Cam to correct fuel mixtures by changing jets.

So Harv I will be hitting you up for a ball park jetting set up for the Strommies. I have some Venturi restrictions coming.
Thanks in advance.
Oh the joys of keeping a grey engine and resisting the temptation to go the cheaper and better performing Red motor or V8.
But that is too easy.

[ed.harris]

Hi Guys,
I think I amended the thread subject description.

Anyway, Yesterday I dropped the J motor head off to Galloway`s for his Usual Grey motor rebuild, bigger Valves, back cut valves, 3 angle job, throating and blending and slightly enlarging the ports with the inlets going out to the locating rings outer diameter.
David did say the Exhaust valve size won't increase by much due to their location.
Looking these heads now closer, it is amazing how poor the design is. The Siamese port design must be to keep the Engine Compact.

Anyway, I also dropped off the Cam as an Exchange, David uses Crow Cams and recommended Grind number Crow 846??
David did not have any Specs on the Grind but did say previous builds did result in rear wheel horsepower of 100HP.
So, doing a quick calculation rule of thumb, manual Transmission 3.55 ratio, should equate to, a conservative, Flywheel Horsepower of around 120HP.
So, this should match the Target Horsepower.
I also left David the Master brand, Cast Iron Cam gear and 22 lifters for him to reface, one of the original lifters, no6 exhaust was pitted.

On the way home I picked up a spare Opel 4 speed Gearbox for parts, just in case, you know how it is, if you have a spare, the one you have shouldn`t break,
While I was there, I asked what else do you have?
A HT ute project, 10k 186 3 on the tree, disk brakes, heater box, Premier grill and headlights, not much rust, but some in the rear Spring hanger area in front of the diff, original paint half rubbed down to metal in places, no thanks.
Heaps of Red motor shit.
AND... one Grey Motor part, a pristine looking Grey Motor Distributor, Oh, he said, that was out of my EJ before I put a red motor in it in 1977.
fifty dollars, it looks great and my J motor did not have one.
I will have to research who recurves these Distributors once I work out the Cam Specs.

Any suggestions?

I am still too scared to rip the sump and bearing caps off yet.
I have limited room plus I want to give the Grey motor Gods a few Presents, perform a few more ceremonies and ask the Gods for pristine bottom End upon opening.

I am sure this Engine is a low mile and has not run in 5 years being the victim of a Red Motor Upgrade.
SO, the ceremonies must continue.

[Errol62]

Excellent score on the dizzy Ed. Performance ignition in Melbourne would be worth checking for re-curve. I had good outcome from them with a blue motor one recently.


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[Harv]

Anyway, I also dropped off the Cam as an Exchange, David uses Crow Cams and recommended Grind number Crow 846??

Crow Cams 846 profile.jpg (17.58 KiB) Viewed 89 times

Close to a Camtech 639-108 from the table above.

Cheers,
Harv

[ed.harris]

Wow Harv!
Thanks very much

Cheers Ed.

[Blacky]

If you have a lazy 80 grand or so you could copy Mark Riek’s latest build -




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[ed.harris]

Yes.
Nice but it keeps blowing up pushing limits.
283hp on the chassis dyno.
Very nice Ute.

Well outside my tight arsed budget.
HHa.