Elle’s 1960 FB 225 mild custom

[Errol62]

Last minute checks under the car before the big trip and the exhaust is leaking through a crack at the back of the muffler. Remedied with my finest spoggie shit.


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[Errol62]

After a 2000 mile round trip the car I going great.

I pulled the scuff plates for a look under the carpet. Front passenger floor was damp but no sign of rust.
With the scuff plates off I drilled 3/4” hole in the top of each sill and ran a length of garden hose connected to the vacuum cleaner down each. It looks pretty clean in there.
Wiring looks tidy.

Boot is a bit of a different story. The bottoms of the quarter panels have been repaired and sealed and drain well. No water on top of the tank or spare wheel well. The back section in front of the beaver tail is a different story, wit a lot of scale and one or two small holes starting.

I’m pretty confident I’ve got to it in good time. Once it had dried out I will give it a good scrape out and probably neutralise with metalfix and fisholene. I will plug the drain holes in the sills and saturate them inside as well. I also need to do the rear doors.


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[Errol62]

I was always intending to remove the rear bumper and see if I can put some better chrome on that I may or may not have lying around. So pulled it off to make the rusted areas more accessible.



I may end up welding in dome patches if I can spare the paint from burning.

If this is the worst of the rust in the car I’m happy. Wouldn’t be an old Holden if it didn’t have any.


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[Errol62]

I may swap the tyres around on the rims to even out the wear.
Driver side.

Passenger is worse.

Just means the white bands will be on the outside.


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[Errol62]

Full shutzenfest in there had blocked up the three ample drain holes at the bottom of the beaver panel.


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[EK283]

I was talking to Bruce from your club at the Nats and he was looking at me weird when i told him i do all my alignments myself.
Its really easy.
You need two degreed wheel plates (swivel type), I bought them on ebay.
A level that measures degrees, string line and a bracket that sits flush on your wheels for the level to rest on.
Caster- turn wheels 20 degrees both ways and subtract the difference gives you total caster, I have a degreed level.
Camber- measure with degreed level, or set square on level ground with a tape, top of rim and bottom of rim. 1 degree or slightly less negative is what i aim for
Toe- approx 1mm to 2mm in on the front, string line touching the rear of the tyre with a poofteenth of deflection.
You can also measure the difference with flat bar and tape measures equally from the center of the wheel outwards.

Clay Ive done just under 5000kms with the above method and pretty much no wear on the doughnuts.

I just cant let anyone touch the front end of the old girl cause it will be wrong.

Greg

[Errol62]

Ha ha Greg. Bruce looks at me that way all the time. Very handy guy, used to be Robbo on here.

I do toe, and a bit more than 1-2mm. I don’t consider measurement better than +/- 2mm attainable with pieces of string. Camber I can do also. Your caster method has me curious. Also, don’t forget we are running generally wider front space on the rear in these cars. So your strings won’t be parallel.

I would have given it more camber if I could have as I know from my EK sedan, throwing it up and down around the devils elbow every day on the way too and from work many years ago now.

My problem is lack of clearance body to inner rear corner of the upper control arms. I am going to have to massage the subframe to get anymore camber. Don’t sorry, it is on the list.

I d really like to know what camber and caster you are aiming for. Do you vary left and right to get the car tracking straight on cambered roads?


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

[EK283]

Hi Clay,
I do the caster then camber then do the toe last.
CASTER is done by turning the wheels left 20 degrees from straight ahead then taking a reading of the inclination of the wheel then turning the wheel right 20 degrees from straight ahead and repeating the measurement. You calculate the difference and that gives you the caster. Because i run the UC front I am able to achieve 5 degrees but the steering does get a little hard in sharp corners, handles like its on rails though. I dont believe you would get much more than 3 degrees on a HR front but i dont have one to test. Removing or adding shims from the top arm lets you move the top ball joint back or foward to achieve the desired caster.
CAMBER is then done and you can either use a degreed level or a square and measure to the bottom of the rim compared to the top, once again you do the calcs to work out the negative camber, i like 0.5 to 1 degree. On a shimmed front end you need to add or subtract each shim and check so you don't loose the caster settings. On a king pin front this doesnt matter as much as the caster is wound around the thread moving the stub angle back or forth then trimming the camber with the offset.
TOE the string must be parallel and you can get very close to exact if you pull it tight enough. I usually use heavy car stands and run the string from behind the back wheels, around the fronts and measure and move the stands till the string is parallel to the front tyres if that track is wider, and the distance between the string and the rear tyres are exactly the same. If the rear is wider then its reverse to the front (String away from the wheels). Wholla parrallel. A rough way to measure toe can be done by measuring the tyre tread on the front of the wheels and then compare that to the rear tread of the wheels, can be surprisingly accurate.
Once you do this you have a reference mesurement the next time you tackle the job.
I like 1mm to zero if possible then I test to see if the steering wanders.
So basically caster controls the return to center of the wheels plus the inclination of the stub when turning, camber lets the tyre sit flat on the road in a straight line and can help keep it flat when cornering hence the slight negative. Toe lets the wheels run straight and controls wondering.
Its possible you are chewing the outside edges of the tyres because of not enough caster which will tilt the top of the loaded wheel outwards when turning into a corner or your camber is positive or your toe is to much !
Lots of fun really.

Greg

[Errol62]

Thanks Greg. I will try measuring the caster with the method you describe. I’ve observed the aligners doing it and it sort of makes sense. I can get a bit more caster if needed by tilting the subframe so the front stabiliser snout is closer to the radiator support, achieved by shortening the front spacer tubes in the HR crossmember mounting bolts. It does track nicely at speed currently and a bit heavy parking so I think it is pretty good. I have read that you should set the caster slightly different side to side to help track straight on cambered road surfaces.

I do toe by measuring the track at front edge, then rolling the car forwards half revolution and measuring the same points now at the rear. Sump makes it impossible to get exactly half rev though, on a lowered car. I’m happy with 2 to 4mm toe in. I will have a go when I’ve finished the rear end rust tidy up.

Bought 1 litre of red metalfix today $70. Not cheap but it is good stuff. I have the rustoleum satin black enamel to go over it as you can only use enamel on top. The black is better and good for high temperature supplication however it is an overkill at $110 for a litre. Also 4 litres of fish oil was $100! And a couple of plastic strip wheels in different sizes was another $50. Got most of the way through stripping back the scuff plates before I went surfing, and managed to bruise a rib. I hope it is only bruised but it is $*#@ sore now.

Now I’ve got the bumper off I want to replace the overriders and outer ends with some better ones. Rifled through my stash and found a reasonable pair of overriders but I can’t find any decent rear bumper ends. I put up a request on the SA club Facebook page and got responses from Perth and Melbourne. I don’t suppose anyone on here has anything reasonable they would part with.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

[Blacky]

Does Mike Flynn have any ? He had a swag of stuff when I was there a few years back??

I went and checked my front tyres yesterday after reading this thread and they seem alright so my home done alignment must be reasonably good

There is a bloke in Perth who still does king pin front end alignments for $40 as he is an early Holden tragic

[EK283]

Hi Clay,
Yes less caster one side will make the vehicle pull to that side but i dont like it because not all roads have the same camber.

Looking at your 2mm to 4mm toe, I think that is too much but without seeing what your caster is i can't be sure if your tyre wear is because of that only.

This is what i go by Typically for the old Street cars

Camber
-1/2 to -1 degree max

Caster
+4 or more degrees (Hard to obtain with some front ends)

Toe-in
1.5mm max total

Greg

[Errol62]

Thanks Greg good info mate. The steeeing isn’t pulling at all and is very steady at speed. I’ll get to it.


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[Errol62]

Richard helped me out with some useable bumper ends.
None the less, the chrome is possibly better on the ones on the car. Just they are dented and bent around the mounts. So I’m having a go at straightening them out.

Almost completed boot refurb. Carpet banned. Ordered a rubber mat from Margin Vigo.

Swapped in some half decent tail light buckets off Errol, the old sedan.
Just need to put a cover on the tank sender, now I’ve fisholened it.
And the mat, in about 12 weeks.

Scuff plates stripped and brunnoxed rusty bits.

Underside looks a bit tidier.

Once the metalfix hardens up may need another coat with this.


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[EK283]

Never ending maintenance !!

Good stuff Clay, will the PV be up and hopping for Stanny ?

Greg

[Errol62]

You never know Greg. Takes me for ever to just do this dipshit stuff lately. Once bumpers are refurbed and back on, I still need to complete fisholene application in the sills and rear doors, replace the speedo and cable, and correct the wheel alignment.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie