Fuel Pump help

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:48 am

Hi Guys,
My ute wouldnt start yesterday after leaving it sit for a few days. Drove alright last time I was out.
Pulled off the air filter & discovered no petrol getting to carby. I knew I had petrol because I put some in last time I drove it.
Check the fuel filter out I couldnt believe how much shit was in it! Shame on me for not noticing.

Pays to keep an eye on this obviously after you buy a car.
I knew the petrol pump was leaking between the upper housing & bottom housing & tightening the screws hadnt fixed it so I thought I'd put a kit through it that I bought a week ago.
One problem I have is that when I wiped the shit off the mesh filter, it crumbled into pieces. This is whats left

Does anyone know if these are available and where to get them? I thought it might have one in the kit I bought but it doesnt.
Next bit of advice I need is: How do you replace the valves in the upper housing?

Do I mangle them to get them out?
As usual I appreciate any advice from you guys.
Dave

FB MAD · Post by **FB MAD** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:15 pm

Dave,

You may have to get a used fuel pump and take the metal gauze filter from it as I don't think you can get them anymore if they aren't supplied in the kit.

You do have to mangle/destroy the old valves to get them out.I use a screwdriver/pliers to prise them outThey are held in by punch marks on the edge of the housing originally.There is a fibre washer that goes underneath the new valves.Do them one at a time to avoid knocking them in facing the wrong way ( yes, I've done it as an apprentice years ago

) and once fitted you will have to punch mark the housing edge again a few times to hold the valves in.

Hope that helps,

Terry.

rosco · Post by **rosco** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:04 pm

Hi Dave,
as Terry has posted, replacing valves in a punched in fuel pump is a bit of work, just go slowly and make sure that washer is fitted.
You may wish to stroll around your local wreckers - there are still older (glass bowl) fuel pumps around - it is only a quick turn of the screw holding down the bowl and the mesh filter can easily be removed - they will become very hard to get in the not too distant future, and no - they don't come in the overhaul kit.
You may wish to have a bit of a play in the wreckers - you may very well come across a fuel pump with removable check valves - these are held in (from memory) by a valve retaining plate fixed with two screws - if you come across one of these - buy it.......... you won't have to "stake" the valves in place after this.

In Melbourne, a couple of years back we had a bad run of Singaporean fuel coming to our supermarket chain outlets - my contact at Burson's told me they were selling fuel pumps to modern cars at between 10 and 20 per week - in a modern vehicle, the pump runs all the time - on those vehicles where the inlet to the pump at the rear of the vehicle was unfiltered, it was chewing out the pump components......... I believe that has now been remedied.

You may wish to totally "flush" your system and opt for a premium fuel - by the pic you included it would appear you are running a "red"?
I have taken a distinct liking to Ultimate - it may be me, but I "feel" the engine runs a little easier - I cannot document this "belief" but for the time being will continue in its use.

Another little break away from the normal which I decided to take was where to position the fuel filter.

I have seen them on the passenger side of the engine - to me is a bit of a risk I think has potential for trouble.

I have also seen them fitted between the fuel pump and carby on the pipe running up from the pump.

I went against what most do and fitted mine between the tank and fuel pump, however I made provision so as to ensure the tank wouldn't empty whilst changing the filter.
I did this by creating a "raised section" in the pipe leading to the fuel pump and fitting the filter in there (just behind the steering box).

If you want to do this, leave your existing filter in situ - but fit this additional one prior to the fuel pump. You will probably need to fit a replacement pipe from the union under the driver's seat to create a rise above full tank level..........

If you want a pic, I'm happy to show the forum what I have done.

It has worked fine for my old bus for the past two years without concern.

hope some of this helps, Dave............

frats,
Rosco

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:09 pm

Thanks Terry, went & fixed it straight after your advice. Thanks Rosco, you are great to get advice from, really appreciate your detailed answers.
I have another ek ute with a grey in it & I removed the mesh filter from that one which was still ok and put it in my now "reconditioned" fuel pump.
It seems to be running ok, just took her for a drive & there arent any leaks anywhere. Rossco, when ultimate came out I had a 250 zzr motorbike that I used to ride to work, I definitely found a noticeable increase in power when using ultimate over standard.
I've heard that fuel filters shouldnt be positioned after the fuel pump as they should be on the lower pressure side of the line, mine is between the tank & the fuel pump which makes sense I reckon.
Thanks again guys, always good to ask someone who's done it before.

FB MAD · Post by **FB MAD** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:32 pm

My preference for an inline fuel filter is in the flexible line between end of steel fuel line from tank and fuel pump rather than between fuel pump and carby.

If fitted between tank line and pump, if it leaks, it will only drip onto the road and/or the fuel pump will suck air instead of fuel and you will soon know there is a fuel problem.

If fitted between fuel pump and carby, it is under fuel pump pressure and if it leaks it may squirt fuel over the hot engine and a hot engine vapourises fuel more easily lending it more able to ignite.

If this happens you could be in deep feacal matter!!

Terry.

rosco · Post by **rosco** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:55 pm

Thanks Dave and Terry,
My first fitting of a fuel filter was between the pump and carb - it worked but was cumbersome and the fuel in the line ran out when changing it.
When I was contemplating fitting one, the carb/fuel system "experts" told me not to fit it on the tank side of the pump - they said my pump would "starve"........ as we all now know, that's a myth.

Yes Terry, I agree wholeheartedly on the ill-fated fitting of a filter anywhere near the exhaust side of the engine......... many have done so - there'll be a rush to rectify this practice when one goes up..............

I am surprised that you have fuel pump problems Dave, with the filter fitted to the rear of the pump - guess that just re-enforces how much crud gets into our tanks from the suppliers.............. yours looks quite red......... has this car done much work outback.........?

I am for the time being a convert to Ultimate - I have "played" with other premiums and found the most advertised to have fallen off a bit since its release a few years back (with the promo of a white horse galloping freely over great ditches in the ground - enough said?)

frats,
Rosco

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:05 pm

The fuel pump that was on the car could have been off anything as I dont know the full history. Drove the car to work the next day and it ran like a dream until a few blocks away when it began idling very rough like it was starving. (the dwell & timing are good). Had to keep lightly pumping the accelerator to keep it going.
On the way home, at the trafiic lights, sometimes it would idle sweet and other times I would have to pump it to keep it going.
When I got it home I checked the filter where the fuel line attaches to the carby, (its a holley 350 that the last owner put on new a month before he sold it to me. He had receipts). The filter had lots of slimy sludge in it. I cleaned it out as best I could. I drove it today, same problem, idles good sometimes & crap at other times. I guess it got some shit inside the carby.
Havent pulled a holley apart before, looks like I'll have to give it a go.

FB MAD · Post by **FB MAD** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:24 am

Crap gets into the fuel tank both from bad fuel from a supplier AND from condensation forming inside the fuel tank itself.

Air contains moisture and over time will condense inside the tank and form water especially in a tank that isn't kept full all the time.Water and steel tanks means RUST and other slimy sort of shit ( dunno what its called) to form.This sits in the bottom of the tank and slowly builds up over time until it starts to make its way to the fuel pickup in the tank and I think that Daves problem is at that point now.

I know its a pain in the rectum Dave but I reckon the only solution for you at this point is to drain the tank,remove it,dry it out and try and get rid of all the rust,water and other crap that has accumulated in it over the last 40+ years.I feel that unless you do this Dave, you will be constantly cleaning and replacing fuel filters and carbies.

I had a HQ Monaro years ago that did the same thing.It had near half a 2 litre ice cream container of crap and water in it and at the time it was only a 12 year old car. I took the tank out,flushed it with a pressure hose and water,dryed it very quickly in the hot summer sun( it was a 42 degree day) and reinstalled.Problem was solved and for years I never had another problem with water/shit in the carby.

A lot of the older blokes would know that it can help if you keep your tank as close to full as possible to minimise air in the tank and the condensation that would result.Modern plastic fuel tanks solve part of the problem.They still will form condensation somewhat but don't rust.

I'd be pulling the tank out Dave,clean all the shit out, dry it and start again.Blow ait through the fuel lines while you are at it as shit can form in there as well.

Hope that helps,

Terry.