Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
Re: Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
5"grinder and a 1mm cutting disc Rosco, and an asistant to hold a wet rag on the wheel arch to keep everything cool. brush touch the cut edge and you are good to go
I started with nothing and still have most of it left.
Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Re: Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
That was plan B, Blacky - I'm not sure it's legal though...
Still looking at plan A - about to "test the metal"... I'm going as slowly as a nudist through a barbed wire fence.... still setting things up - hope I don't get a "rush of blood"..
report in later.
frats,
Rosco
Still looking at plan A - about to "test the metal"... I'm going as slowly as a nudist through a barbed wire fence.... still setting things up - hope I don't get a "rush of blood"..
report in later.
frats,
Rosco
Re: Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
Ok folk - as promised... both arches are "done".
For those who are following this with the intention of fitting Dragways - or anything with a greater than 3 1/4" rim distance from the brake drum mount face - as many have posted here - Torana diff housing!
I spent the best part of 10 hours on two arches today... yes, they are done - but not as I had intended the happy result to have eventuated.
There's nothing I could buy, make or modify to do this job... forget the jemmy bar with a cut off head and slit in it - nup, won't work.
You'll get the slit over the lip - but you can't bend it up.. for two reasons.
One - the bend end of the bar won't clear the outside inner wall of the wheel-well... bummer!
Next - multi-grips - nup - same deal.
I did manage to work some of those large light blue handled USA (can't remember maker's name) multi-grips at an angle which allowed me to bend up the lip.. and yes, I did eventually get a roll of sorts... but not what I had envisaged.
Ball peen hammer interspersed with the multi-grips... eventually got well inside the line of the inner wall of the wheel well...
Finished off refining all my beating and bending with a flap disk...
End of day - you can't "feel" much of a roll under there - but I have the clearance I need and simply didn't go for the angle grinder and cut away the arch... sorry, Blacky.
Ok - pix tomorrow .. took plenty, and you'll see just how "little" I needed (and ended up with) after all that work.... again - Torana diff.
Specs - I have a working travel of 3 1/4 inches from normal suspension rest until the tyre wil rub on the inner wall of the wheel well (inside of luggage compartment).
There is 22 mm left of the original "lip" distance from the outside of the wheel arch. I needed to get to 25 mm - so I have 3 mm clearance from the tyre as it travels up past the "rolled" lip.
For anyone wanting to go ahead and roll these arches - be warned!
If you only need a vertical travel of less than 1 1/4 inches - fine.. if not - rolling the lips will not achieve your need - because - the wheel will then hit the inner wall of the double skin above.....
If you still want to roll these - you'll have to knock in this inner wall....
Anyone with the original or classic Dragway and wants to have the wheel running inside the guards above the lip line - they simply won't.... Torana diff housing...
These "revised" Dragways will run inside the lips... but only as far up as the inner wall of the wheel well...
I don't run "low" - and have very strong over-riders to support the suspension when deflecting - plus those Koni shockers....
We will "just" get away with this.
And, for those who are not savvy with Dragway 5 spoked wheels - it makes not one jot of difference whether you go for 7 inch, 6 inch or even 5 inch width.... the outer distance from the spokes to the edge of the rim is all the same.... the only thing which changes is the distance the inner edge of the rim extends towards the centre of the car...
That's just about it from me on this - but I will post a few pix tomorrow of my work today...
frats,
Rosco
For those who are following this with the intention of fitting Dragways - or anything with a greater than 3 1/4" rim distance from the brake drum mount face - as many have posted here - Torana diff housing!
I spent the best part of 10 hours on two arches today... yes, they are done - but not as I had intended the happy result to have eventuated.
There's nothing I could buy, make or modify to do this job... forget the jemmy bar with a cut off head and slit in it - nup, won't work.
You'll get the slit over the lip - but you can't bend it up.. for two reasons.
One - the bend end of the bar won't clear the outside inner wall of the wheel-well... bummer!
Next - multi-grips - nup - same deal.
I did manage to work some of those large light blue handled USA (can't remember maker's name) multi-grips at an angle which allowed me to bend up the lip.. and yes, I did eventually get a roll of sorts... but not what I had envisaged.
Ball peen hammer interspersed with the multi-grips... eventually got well inside the line of the inner wall of the wheel well...
Finished off refining all my beating and bending with a flap disk...
End of day - you can't "feel" much of a roll under there - but I have the clearance I need and simply didn't go for the angle grinder and cut away the arch... sorry, Blacky.
Ok - pix tomorrow .. took plenty, and you'll see just how "little" I needed (and ended up with) after all that work.... again - Torana diff.
Specs - I have a working travel of 3 1/4 inches from normal suspension rest until the tyre wil rub on the inner wall of the wheel well (inside of luggage compartment).
There is 22 mm left of the original "lip" distance from the outside of the wheel arch. I needed to get to 25 mm - so I have 3 mm clearance from the tyre as it travels up past the "rolled" lip.
For anyone wanting to go ahead and roll these arches - be warned!
If you only need a vertical travel of less than 1 1/4 inches - fine.. if not - rolling the lips will not achieve your need - because - the wheel will then hit the inner wall of the double skin above.....
If you still want to roll these - you'll have to knock in this inner wall....
Anyone with the original or classic Dragway and wants to have the wheel running inside the guards above the lip line - they simply won't.... Torana diff housing...
These "revised" Dragways will run inside the lips... but only as far up as the inner wall of the wheel well...
I don't run "low" - and have very strong over-riders to support the suspension when deflecting - plus those Koni shockers....
We will "just" get away with this.
And, for those who are not savvy with Dragway 5 spoked wheels - it makes not one jot of difference whether you go for 7 inch, 6 inch or even 5 inch width.... the outer distance from the spokes to the edge of the rim is all the same.... the only thing which changes is the distance the inner edge of the rim extends towards the centre of the car...
That's just about it from me on this - but I will post a few pix tomorrow of my work today...
frats,
Rosco
Re: Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
Good to hear you got the clearance you needed Rosco, but sounds like you really had to work for it.
There's something to be said for running skinny whites on a standard steel rim.....
There's something to be said for running skinny whites on a standard steel rim.....
Speed and Style........... One day I'll get the speed bit.
Re: Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
Thanks Brett - haven't road tested it yet... about to put it down on all fours and take it for a 20 k run with all our HB gear in it.... report and pix later.
Not the finish I wanted - but I've seen far, far worse. I didn't damage/bend/buckle/warp any of the surrounding area - but I didn't like taking to my dear old bus with a hammer? even if it was with the most delicate of strokes... I felt so, so guilty.
Yes, another chapter - we now add wheel arches to the long list of nasty things in my modified bucket.
Just slightly rolling and sanding back these lips mightn't seem much to most who are following this - but it's way far too much beyond what I ever intended to do.... 1/4" is all I needed, but had to go further - because, as the lips come up - they actually outstretch when horizontal... and it is then necessary to take them further to gain any advantage.... not a nice job, a lot of stress and extremely time consuming when working like a preying mantis... got some of my prayers answered... but had to pay a lot of penance to achieve the result..
frats,
Rosco
Not the finish I wanted - but I've seen far, far worse. I didn't damage/bend/buckle/warp any of the surrounding area - but I didn't like taking to my dear old bus with a hammer? even if it was with the most delicate of strokes... I felt so, so guilty.
Yes, another chapter - we now add wheel arches to the long list of nasty things in my modified bucket.
Just slightly rolling and sanding back these lips mightn't seem much to most who are following this - but it's way far too much beyond what I ever intended to do.... 1/4" is all I needed, but had to go further - because, as the lips come up - they actually outstretch when horizontal... and it is then necessary to take them further to gain any advantage.... not a nice job, a lot of stress and extremely time consuming when working like a preying mantis... got some of my prayers answered... but had to pay a lot of penance to achieve the result..
frats,
Rosco
-
Craig Allardyce
- Posts: 1464
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
- State: VIC
- Location: Stratford
Re: Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
Hey Rosco,
After all that pain I think you need to rethink your modified "Bucket list".
Sorry for the play on words, I couldn't help it.
After all that pain I think you need to rethink your modified "Bucket list".
Sorry for the play on words, I couldn't help it.
Re: Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
Thanks Craig - with every modification almost without exception - although there were upgraded gains and spoils to be enjoyed - every one of them has been to the demise of the integrity of this dear old car...
The only exception being going from cross-plies to radials - the rest of them were/are an abomination to what used to be a delightful aura of the period...
As for bucket list - the only real "buckets" in the dear old thing are the front seats - and even those, I strayed from the original manufacturer to achieve something which afforded some creature comfort on long trips.
Ok folk - update... 60 km run this afternoon... not a peep out of the rear tyres - job done.
Now, I do hope someone puts the the following in the technical section - these measurements are exact.
Anyone wanting to fit non-standard wheels to an original rear diff - or anything from EJ to HR please take note of the following.
There is exactly 3 5/8" spacing from the mount face of the brake drums to the inner lip of the rear arch - not one jot more!
If your intended wheels have more than 3 3/8" outwards measurement from the mount face of the drum to the outer edge of the rim - and you do not intend to run with the backside up in the air - it won't fit!
My measurements were 3 5/8" clearance - which I checked and re-checked many, many times.... on both sides.
You can't use this measurement for deciding on wheels as it does not allow for the "bulge" of the tyre-wall - and it is that tyre wall which will foul the lips of the wheel arches - from the centre-line vertically to about 6" towards the rear... the critical part is about 1" to the rear of the centre-line.
The wheel arch tapers inwards as it goes towards the rear of the vehicle - but, the diameter of the tyre will also allow a greater vertical travel before it hits the lip.
So - someone, please post this up in the tech section when people will undoubtedly request information about backspace and offsets..
I do not understand what either of those words mean in relation to wheels.. I only worked with my own measurements - from the drum face to the inner lip of the wheel arch - I also posted what the vertical clearances are in suspension "rest" without the over-riders fitted.
Pix when I upload them - just a few.. and yes, there's not much left of the "rolled" part of the arches - I've just filled in what was there with Sikaflex to back up the edge of the revised lip.. just in case the tyres do somehow find them...
Not a mark, not a peep and definitely no sign of anything coming anywhere near close under there.
Repeat! - these are the "revised" narrow spoke wheels - the outer edge of the rim on "classic" with chunky spoked wheels will be at least 1/2" further outboard than mine - and they will NOT fit within the wheel arches with any of the above diff housings.
frats,
Rosco
The only exception being going from cross-plies to radials - the rest of them were/are an abomination to what used to be a delightful aura of the period...
As for bucket list - the only real "buckets" in the dear old thing are the front seats - and even those, I strayed from the original manufacturer to achieve something which afforded some creature comfort on long trips.
Ok folk - update... 60 km run this afternoon... not a peep out of the rear tyres - job done.
Now, I do hope someone puts the the following in the technical section - these measurements are exact.
Anyone wanting to fit non-standard wheels to an original rear diff - or anything from EJ to HR please take note of the following.
There is exactly 3 5/8" spacing from the mount face of the brake drums to the inner lip of the rear arch - not one jot more!
If your intended wheels have more than 3 3/8" outwards measurement from the mount face of the drum to the outer edge of the rim - and you do not intend to run with the backside up in the air - it won't fit!
My measurements were 3 5/8" clearance - which I checked and re-checked many, many times.... on both sides.
You can't use this measurement for deciding on wheels as it does not allow for the "bulge" of the tyre-wall - and it is that tyre wall which will foul the lips of the wheel arches - from the centre-line vertically to about 6" towards the rear... the critical part is about 1" to the rear of the centre-line.
The wheel arch tapers inwards as it goes towards the rear of the vehicle - but, the diameter of the tyre will also allow a greater vertical travel before it hits the lip.
So - someone, please post this up in the tech section when people will undoubtedly request information about backspace and offsets..
I do not understand what either of those words mean in relation to wheels.. I only worked with my own measurements - from the drum face to the inner lip of the wheel arch - I also posted what the vertical clearances are in suspension "rest" without the over-riders fitted.
Pix when I upload them - just a few.. and yes, there's not much left of the "rolled" part of the arches - I've just filled in what was there with Sikaflex to back up the edge of the revised lip.. just in case the tyres do somehow find them...
Not a mark, not a peep and definitely no sign of anything coming anywhere near close under there.
Repeat! - these are the "revised" narrow spoke wheels - the outer edge of the rim on "classic" with chunky spoked wheels will be at least 1/2" further outboard than mine - and they will NOT fit within the wheel arches with any of the above diff housings.
frats,
Rosco
Re: Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
Ok here's the pix from yesterday - post "rolling".
frats,
Rosco
frats,
Rosco
Re: Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
Ok - folk, running report ...
we're at Narrabri - wheels and tyres are simply magic.... it is running at up to 100 km/h (mainly around the 95 mark) and doing around the 29.5 mpg.... accurate.
Today saw a remarkable 36.1 mpg... but it was measured over only a 70 mile stretch where there was more down hill than up.
the figure above is today's average with 5 tank top ups... brim to brim each time.
The speedo is within 1 mph out at 60 mph - reading low!
The odometer is just 0.1 mile out over 10 miles....
If anyone wants to know - it's an aussie 4 speed M20 - has the green speedo gear (think it's 21 tooth), the diff is a coarse-splined 3:08 to 1 and the tyres as 205/70 R14's
I've never had a car with an as accurate speedo as this is at present...
Steering is simply brilliant - it no longer "walks" on tyres which were too wide for the rims (185/70 R13 on stock 13 x 4.5").
Downside - lost power on climbs..... but rpms have dropped to 2,500 at 60 mph.
Best of all - not one rub all the way up so far - not fully loaded, but there's not much room for more...
frats,
Rosco
we're at Narrabri - wheels and tyres are simply magic.... it is running at up to 100 km/h (mainly around the 95 mark) and doing around the 29.5 mpg.... accurate.
Today saw a remarkable 36.1 mpg... but it was measured over only a 70 mile stretch where there was more down hill than up.
the figure above is today's average with 5 tank top ups... brim to brim each time.
The speedo is within 1 mph out at 60 mph - reading low!
The odometer is just 0.1 mile out over 10 miles....
If anyone wants to know - it's an aussie 4 speed M20 - has the green speedo gear (think it's 21 tooth), the diff is a coarse-splined 3:08 to 1 and the tyres as 205/70 R14's
I've never had a car with an as accurate speedo as this is at present...
Steering is simply brilliant - it no longer "walks" on tyres which were too wide for the rims (185/70 R13 on stock 13 x 4.5").
Downside - lost power on climbs..... but rpms have dropped to 2,500 at 60 mph.
Best of all - not one rub all the way up so far - not fully loaded, but there's not much room for more...
frats,
Rosco
Re: Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
Good to hear you have had a win Rosco 
I started with nothing and still have most of it left.
Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Re: Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
Great to hear Rosco.
I'm changing my wheels, a different mag may be easier.
I'm running HR front disc and rear.
Did your 14" fit straight on, or did they need modifications.
I'm changing my wheels, a different mag may be easier.
I'm running HR front disc and rear.
Did your 14" fit straight on, or did they need modifications.
IT's LIKE WATCHING DRUNK MONKEYS TRYING TO HUMP A FOOTBALL.
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Brian Westlake
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:11 pm
- State: NOT ENTERED
Re: Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
Thats a great old car Rosco. With that tall gearing you will have a good trip and forget about rear guards rubbing now. I did mine on the side of the road at Muswellbrook a few years ago because I was a little too low with loaded car, Putty Road and 185/ 80 13s and 13 by 6'' Tasmans and haven't heard a peep since!
Tony.
Tony.
Re: Dragway Wheels - wheel arch lip roller needed.
Thanks folk,
yes - they make the old girl work on hills. Power valve gets a lot more use now - even on moderate climbs.
Finny, the wheels were specially made for me - we worked very hard to get exact measurements for the wheels to fit, missed by 1/4".
Absolute extreme used to get them under the rear guards.
If you are considering Dragways - please talk to me first. I'll show you exactly where the issues are.
As for 14" - no problems as long as you stick to 6" wide. If you go 7"s, the upper ball joint of the HR front end will strike the edge of the rim.
If you drop down to 13"s, I don't believe you'll get 13 x 7's on the front using the same wheel offsets necessary for the rear.
I think we finally hit the 30 mpg yesterday on one of the stretches.
Over 5 tank fulls (brim to brim) our average was 29.5 mpg... mainly at 95 km/h up through the back blocks.... pretty happy with that.
The wheels and tyres allow the car to hold the road beautifully... it no longer "walks" on over-width tyres for stock 4.5" wheels.
Downside is the ride - it's firm... and the tyre noise... maybe better if I find a quieter brand next time around.
Looking forward to catching up at HB - we'll be lobbing in this afternoon.
frats,
Rosco
yes - they make the old girl work on hills. Power valve gets a lot more use now - even on moderate climbs.
Finny, the wheels were specially made for me - we worked very hard to get exact measurements for the wheels to fit, missed by 1/4".
Absolute extreme used to get them under the rear guards.
If you are considering Dragways - please talk to me first. I'll show you exactly where the issues are.
As for 14" - no problems as long as you stick to 6" wide. If you go 7"s, the upper ball joint of the HR front end will strike the edge of the rim.
If you drop down to 13"s, I don't believe you'll get 13 x 7's on the front using the same wheel offsets necessary for the rear.
I think we finally hit the 30 mpg yesterday on one of the stretches.
Over 5 tank fulls (brim to brim) our average was 29.5 mpg... mainly at 95 km/h up through the back blocks.... pretty happy with that.
The wheels and tyres allow the car to hold the road beautifully... it no longer "walks" on over-width tyres for stock 4.5" wheels.
Downside is the ride - it's firm... and the tyre noise... maybe better if I find a quieter brand next time around.
Looking forward to catching up at HB - we'll be lobbing in this afternoon.
frats,
Rosco