Gday guys,
I've noticed diff oil leaking out of one of my rear wheels onto the floor. It is coming from the wheel that had a badly buckled rim on it when I bought it a few months ago. (since had it straightened.) I havent had anything to do with diffs apart from replacing the whole unit but will give anything a go. Was wondering: is it a straight forward job to pull out an axle and replace a seal? and is there anything to look out for? I'd appreciate any advice.
Dave
Leaky diff.
Leaky diff.
My Band.....
www.myspace.com/thesuperdextas
www.myspace.com/thesuperdextas
Hi Dave,
you'll probably get better advice from others on this, but this will get your mind into gear...............
Are you sure it's oil leaking from the wheel - just checking - it could be brake fluid.
The axle has a precision machined section just on the inside where the wheel bearing is pressed on - this section is the surface on which the housing seal runs - if you have had a buckled wheel - I can't see why the seal would have been damaged as the bearing should have held everything firmly in place but...................
Have you checked the housing to see that it isn't cracked - one has to ponder as to how the wheel was buckled.........
Did you notice any "grumbling" sound from the rear whilst running along the road? - it should be a fairly constant pitch and will be audible at all times the vehicle is in motion - regardless of power, coast or overdrive.
What I am trying to determine is if the wheel bearing is spent.
If all looks good so far it would probably now be time to pull out the axle - there's a bit in it, but not too difficult.
I would suggest draining the oil - if there's been some mechanical damage done, it would be good "insurance" to take a peek at what's in the oil.
Jack up the side of the vehicle - make sure to chock the other side as we will have the handbrake released.
Remove the road wheel and brake drum.
Through the larger of the three holes in the axle flange (where the wheel and brake drum are fitted) you will see four nuts holding the axle wheel bearing retaining plate - this is what holds the bearing in your axle.
Make sure everything is very clean and free of oil, grease and grime etc as your brake shoes will will exposed during the next operation.
You may also like to don one of those cheap face masks to keep the lining dust from your lungs.
I'm pretty sure you can leave the brake shoes, springs and retainers in place - it's been some time since I did this job - if not others will bring you up to speed................... you may need to clamp the wheel cylinder, remove the return springs and retainers then open up the shoes......... I can't remember.
Undo the four nuts and spring washers and store them safely for re-fitting.
The "cheap" method to remove the axle is to place the brake drum on the studs reversed - using three wheel nuts. Fit the nuts only until they are on by three or four threads - this next bit is the tricky bit...............
Be very careful to protect your fingers and knuckles, push the brake drum up against the flange then with both hands pull it outwards until it bangs against the wheel nuts - if you're lucky the axle will start to pull out from the housing after only a dozen or so "hits" if not, then you're in for a bit of a job.
Try to be patient whilst doing this (it will most likely test all you have) - try not to damage anything as you get frustrated.
The axle WILL come out - eventually.
Another method involves the use of a "slide hammer" - hopefully we won't need to go find one of those...............
As the axle comes out - you will see nearly three quarters of an inch of the bearing protrude before this -be very careful not to have it "drop" - that seal surface (of the axle) must be protected - it is in a vulnerable spot and prone to damage.
Try to "suspend" the axle as you withdraw it - we don't want to damage it as it is drawn along the housing tube.
Once out, the seal can be prised out of the housing - you should quickly see if it is damaged - replace it even if it looks fine.
If you feel it an opportune time to replace the bearing - bearing suppliers will often press the old one off and fit a replacement for a nominal charge.
The bearing is held in place by a "collar" it must be pressed on and cannot be re-used - a new collar will come with a replacement bearing.
Re-fitting is much the reverse of what has been done - but a few pointers -
Give the bearing surface of the housing a really good clean - if it is badly rusted - clean it up with a bit of wet and dry or fine emery - don't overdo it.
Try not to get ANYTHING into that housing whilst working on this - even the smallest piece of grit can cause damage to the diff carrier and it's associated pieces.
Smear the bearing/housing surface with some diff oil - just a very thin film.
Coat the machined seal surface of the axle with diff oil prior to fitting.
Fit a new "paper" gasket to the underside of the bearing retainer plate.
When fitting the axle, be very careful not to slide the axle across the new bearing seal - it will destroy it.
Make sure not to "trap" the large "O" ring of the new bearing as it enters the housing - just keep an eye on it that it is all going in and one piece is not left hanging out as the bearing makes it way into the housing.
Make sure to engage the splines of the axle into the diff carrier before commencing to fit and tighten up the retainer nuts.
Don't be tempted to "bang" in the axle with a hammer - try to get as much of it into the housing so as to fit the nuts and tighten them up progressively and evenly a bit at a time. If you must use some force - just tapping as you rotate the axle is probably the softest way of doing it.
Don't forget to re-fill the diff with oil.
Road test the car then check the nuts again - have a feel of the axle housing where the bearing is located for heat - I have heard of bearing plates being overtightened - you should pick this up when you fit the wheel - try rotating it - it should feel roughly the same as what it was prior to removal - if anything, maybe just a slight increase in resistance........
There is a torque spec for these nuts - can't remember what it is - will give you all the "bible" info if you need it...........
Hope this helps,
frats,
Rosco
you'll probably get better advice from others on this, but this will get your mind into gear...............
Are you sure it's oil leaking from the wheel - just checking - it could be brake fluid.
The axle has a precision machined section just on the inside where the wheel bearing is pressed on - this section is the surface on which the housing seal runs - if you have had a buckled wheel - I can't see why the seal would have been damaged as the bearing should have held everything firmly in place but...................
Have you checked the housing to see that it isn't cracked - one has to ponder as to how the wheel was buckled.........
Did you notice any "grumbling" sound from the rear whilst running along the road? - it should be a fairly constant pitch and will be audible at all times the vehicle is in motion - regardless of power, coast or overdrive.
What I am trying to determine is if the wheel bearing is spent.
If all looks good so far it would probably now be time to pull out the axle - there's a bit in it, but not too difficult.
I would suggest draining the oil - if there's been some mechanical damage done, it would be good "insurance" to take a peek at what's in the oil.
Jack up the side of the vehicle - make sure to chock the other side as we will have the handbrake released.
Remove the road wheel and brake drum.
Through the larger of the three holes in the axle flange (where the wheel and brake drum are fitted) you will see four nuts holding the axle wheel bearing retaining plate - this is what holds the bearing in your axle.
Make sure everything is very clean and free of oil, grease and grime etc as your brake shoes will will exposed during the next operation.
You may also like to don one of those cheap face masks to keep the lining dust from your lungs.
I'm pretty sure you can leave the brake shoes, springs and retainers in place - it's been some time since I did this job - if not others will bring you up to speed................... you may need to clamp the wheel cylinder, remove the return springs and retainers then open up the shoes......... I can't remember.
Undo the four nuts and spring washers and store them safely for re-fitting.
The "cheap" method to remove the axle is to place the brake drum on the studs reversed - using three wheel nuts. Fit the nuts only until they are on by three or four threads - this next bit is the tricky bit...............
Be very careful to protect your fingers and knuckles, push the brake drum up against the flange then with both hands pull it outwards until it bangs against the wheel nuts - if you're lucky the axle will start to pull out from the housing after only a dozen or so "hits" if not, then you're in for a bit of a job.
Try to be patient whilst doing this (it will most likely test all you have) - try not to damage anything as you get frustrated.
The axle WILL come out - eventually.
Another method involves the use of a "slide hammer" - hopefully we won't need to go find one of those...............
As the axle comes out - you will see nearly three quarters of an inch of the bearing protrude before this -be very careful not to have it "drop" - that seal surface (of the axle) must be protected - it is in a vulnerable spot and prone to damage.
Try to "suspend" the axle as you withdraw it - we don't want to damage it as it is drawn along the housing tube.
Once out, the seal can be prised out of the housing - you should quickly see if it is damaged - replace it even if it looks fine.
If you feel it an opportune time to replace the bearing - bearing suppliers will often press the old one off and fit a replacement for a nominal charge.
The bearing is held in place by a "collar" it must be pressed on and cannot be re-used - a new collar will come with a replacement bearing.
Re-fitting is much the reverse of what has been done - but a few pointers -
Give the bearing surface of the housing a really good clean - if it is badly rusted - clean it up with a bit of wet and dry or fine emery - don't overdo it.
Try not to get ANYTHING into that housing whilst working on this - even the smallest piece of grit can cause damage to the diff carrier and it's associated pieces.
Smear the bearing/housing surface with some diff oil - just a very thin film.
Coat the machined seal surface of the axle with diff oil prior to fitting.
Fit a new "paper" gasket to the underside of the bearing retainer plate.
When fitting the axle, be very careful not to slide the axle across the new bearing seal - it will destroy it.
Make sure not to "trap" the large "O" ring of the new bearing as it enters the housing - just keep an eye on it that it is all going in and one piece is not left hanging out as the bearing makes it way into the housing.
Make sure to engage the splines of the axle into the diff carrier before commencing to fit and tighten up the retainer nuts.
Don't be tempted to "bang" in the axle with a hammer - try to get as much of it into the housing so as to fit the nuts and tighten them up progressively and evenly a bit at a time. If you must use some force - just tapping as you rotate the axle is probably the softest way of doing it.
Don't forget to re-fill the diff with oil.
Road test the car then check the nuts again - have a feel of the axle housing where the bearing is located for heat - I have heard of bearing plates being overtightened - you should pick this up when you fit the wheel - try rotating it - it should feel roughly the same as what it was prior to removal - if anything, maybe just a slight increase in resistance........
There is a torque spec for these nuts - can't remember what it is - will give you all the "bible" info if you need it...........
Hope this helps,
frats,
Rosco
G'day Dave,
You have to check the axle first to see if it is bent, if it is then just replacing the seal will be a waste of effort. Oil will be allowed to pass the sealing surface and leak whilst your driving. Not only that, the rear brakes shoes will bind and be grabby, wear will be uneven on the linings, then lead to eventual failure.
To check for bent axle:
*Place chocks at the front wheels, then Jack the rear of the vehicle, place jack stands under the rear axle, or under the rear spring seats and remove both rear wheels.
*Remove the drums and invert them on the axles (fit them back to front) and use washers to provide a even mating surface on all 5 studs to space the taper on the drum to axle then screw the wheel nuts on to secure....... This will give you a better visual indication on axle distortion.
*Make sure you chocked the front wheels, then run you car in 2nd or top gear at a slow engine speed. The engine will not stall as there is no load on it, if it is juddery or jerky, then pull the choke on slightly to increase engine revs.
You will be able to let the vehicle run on its own and jump out and take a look at the axles.
A bent axle will stand out right away.
After the inspection, Do not apply the brake pedal, just switch the engine off. Or throw her in neutral then turn her off, and let the axles come to a stop themselves.
If the axles are pretty true, then possibly straight seal failure is the cause or even the axle bearing itself may have to much play, causing seepage. Then remove the axle assy.
To remove the axle, Pull the linings and wheel cylinder off the backing plate, then Disconnect the handbrake and undo the axle 4 retaining bolts. (A good tip on a tight or stubborn axle is to use the drum and invert it, screw a couple of wheel nuts only 3 or 4 threads on and use the drum as a slide hammer, to remove the axle)
Its pretty easy for the experienced to remove the bearing, and can sometimes be a pain also, so my advise is take the axle and a bearing seal kit to a engineering or repair shop and get them to remove and install it for you, they should be able to do a run out test on the axle and check it for straightness before they fit the new bearing .........
While your at it drain and replace the diff oil as well. Then throw her back together.
Regards John.
Ps. Band sounds pretty good.
You have to check the axle first to see if it is bent, if it is then just replacing the seal will be a waste of effort. Oil will be allowed to pass the sealing surface and leak whilst your driving. Not only that, the rear brakes shoes will bind and be grabby, wear will be uneven on the linings, then lead to eventual failure.
To check for bent axle:
*Place chocks at the front wheels, then Jack the rear of the vehicle, place jack stands under the rear axle, or under the rear spring seats and remove both rear wheels.
*Remove the drums and invert them on the axles (fit them back to front) and use washers to provide a even mating surface on all 5 studs to space the taper on the drum to axle then screw the wheel nuts on to secure....... This will give you a better visual indication on axle distortion.
*Make sure you chocked the front wheels, then run you car in 2nd or top gear at a slow engine speed. The engine will not stall as there is no load on it, if it is juddery or jerky, then pull the choke on slightly to increase engine revs.
You will be able to let the vehicle run on its own and jump out and take a look at the axles.
A bent axle will stand out right away.
After the inspection, Do not apply the brake pedal, just switch the engine off. Or throw her in neutral then turn her off, and let the axles come to a stop themselves.
If the axles are pretty true, then possibly straight seal failure is the cause or even the axle bearing itself may have to much play, causing seepage. Then remove the axle assy.
To remove the axle, Pull the linings and wheel cylinder off the backing plate, then Disconnect the handbrake and undo the axle 4 retaining bolts. (A good tip on a tight or stubborn axle is to use the drum and invert it, screw a couple of wheel nuts only 3 or 4 threads on and use the drum as a slide hammer, to remove the axle)
Its pretty easy for the experienced to remove the bearing, and can sometimes be a pain also, so my advise is take the axle and a bearing seal kit to a engineering or repair shop and get them to remove and install it for you, they should be able to do a run out test on the axle and check it for straightness before they fit the new bearing .........
While your at it drain and replace the diff oil as well. Then throw her back together.
Regards John.
Ps. Band sounds pretty good.
There's nothing as Sweet as a EK V8
Guys,
You all have excellent advise and knowledge! BUT,
The axle will not come out until you remove the plates that hold the axle bearing in place.
The 2 plates that are behind the brake backing plate can catch the unwary out! (yes me)
You cant see them unless you pull the backing plate out and usually they will fall out. (They are a bugger to get back in as well)
No pulling, hitting,sliding will get the axle out unless these pesky buggers are gone!
Regards Greg
You all have excellent advise and knowledge! BUT,
The axle will not come out until you remove the plates that hold the axle bearing in place.
The 2 plates that are behind the brake backing plate can catch the unwary out! (yes me)
You cant see them unless you pull the backing plate out and usually they will fall out. (They are a bugger to get back in as well)
No pulling, hitting,sliding will get the axle out unless these pesky buggers are gone!
Regards Greg
So many cars so little time!
bearing plates
Yes Greg,
just had a look in the "bible" - later axle housings/brake backing plates are a little different - I remember doing mine (EH housing) some time back and didn't need to pull the brake backing plates.
You are correct, the bible says however to pull the brake backing plate out just enough to withdraw the two halves of the bearing retainers.
Later models differ here and this is where I stuffed up.
It goes on to suggest using a pair of needle nosed pliers to withdraw the bearing plates................ that may save disconnecting a whole heap of hydraulics and shoes etc.......
Sorry John - likewise - if I knew you were already on the job, I'd have left it to you - there wasn't an reply posted when I started my post - guess I just jumped in when I picked up the question without giving anyone else a chance................ think we superimposed most of it....
So Dave, hopefully you got enough to confuse you - for now anyway.
frats,
Rosco
just had a look in the "bible" - later axle housings/brake backing plates are a little different - I remember doing mine (EH housing) some time back and didn't need to pull the brake backing plates.
You are correct, the bible says however to pull the brake backing plate out just enough to withdraw the two halves of the bearing retainers.
Later models differ here and this is where I stuffed up.
It goes on to suggest using a pair of needle nosed pliers to withdraw the bearing plates................ that may save disconnecting a whole heap of hydraulics and shoes etc.......
Sorry John - likewise - if I knew you were already on the job, I'd have left it to you - there wasn't an reply posted when I started my post - guess I just jumped in when I picked up the question without giving anyone else a chance................ think we superimposed most of it....
So Dave, hopefully you got enough to confuse you - for now anyway.
frats,
Rosco
Your right on the money there Greg. Good pick up.
I absolutely totally forgot about those little pesky plates, its been 25 years or so since I have done an early holden axle bearing. The continual work on modern product is clearing my mind of the early cars.
Regards John
I absolutely totally forgot about those little pesky plates, its been 25 years or so since I have done an early holden axle bearing. The continual work on modern product is clearing my mind of the early cars.
Regards John
There's nothing as Sweet as a EK V8