red 186 and trimatic,or aussie 4,or celica5. whats involved?

matches · Post by **matches** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:47 pm

I'm wanting to know whats involved in fitting a 186 and trimatic into an ek? whats best to start with, an auto car or are both trans tunnels too small? what, if any engine mount changes are needed? do you need to upgrade to disk front? do you need a different gearbox mount? i'm asking now before i've got an ek so i know whats best for my project, whether i buy one already done or do the work myself. the engine will be mildly worked so do i need those hadfield chassis rails, ect?

Devilrod · Post by **Devilrod** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:30 pm

First thing would be to find an engineer and see exactly what they want done.

As far as bodies go an auto floor doesn't need any mods to my knowledge, manuals will.

Front end will need to be swapped, which means brakes too. Both front and rear (keep them matched). Engine mounts need to be moved too (on a standard HR front end) and the out rigger needs to be swapped too.

Not sure in NSW if the chassis rails are needed, but the engineer will answer that one for.

Realsistacally its best to start with an already rego'ed and converted one

Unless you're a sucker for punishment

mrs ratbox · Post by **mrs ratbox** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:45 pm

in NSW you need disc brake front, which also means changing the rear brakes, seat belts in all seating positions, heater demister (some engineers just a demister) 2 speed wipers, window washers (squirters) and external mirrors you don't have to have a chassis kit, an auto floor hump will fit just about any gearbox you want, but you'll have to fabricate a cross member
unless yor doing the work yorself it's prolly better/cheaper to buy one done but then it also has to be to yor taste, also consider if a car yor looking at has a aussie 4 speed it should be just about a straight bolt in swap to a trimatic a 5 speed will need a little extra work

matches · Post by **matches** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:37 pm

thanks guys that helps heaps, i'm not too worried about doing the work myself, i've done some engine transplants in other cars (5ltr v8 into a hilux, ls1 into a vc commodore). whats involved in fitting 2 speed wipers and demisters?

mrs ratbox · Post by **mrs ratbox** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:04 pm

both those things are simple hardest part about demisters is actually finding the vents, they come up on ebay from time to time but usually go for $100 plus, i think oldnek on here makes repro ones
2 speed wipers are also fairly easy there's a couple of ways to go about it ekjay on here does a bolt in conversion

matches · Post by **matches** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:02 am

thanks ratbox, i didn't know if they came with the vents already in them or not. when i get a ek i'll definately be getting the bolt in kit... less work on little things the better, leaves more time to get carried away with the big stuff, like going from a quick respray just to get through rego to an all out customizing restoration. been there done that.. don't know if the other half would like me doing that again though.

hammondo · Post by **hammondo** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:30 pm

ratbox wrote:in NSW you need disc brake front, which also means changing the rear brakes,

can someone explain this? what do we need to change the rear brakes to?

I thought I could just swap the front end over and leave the rears.

Also do you need to put the FB outrigger on if using a red motor? or can you just leave the HR one on?

sorry for hijacking

Cheers
Greg

rosco · Post by **rosco** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:51 pm

My turn,
I'm hi-jacking.......

Brakes - not sure on other states, but was of the opinion in Vic drums are ok........ all others may be different......

If you go discs - you'll probably need to change the rears - if you retain a single line system - the wheel cylinders are changed to a smaller bore to prevent rear wheel lockup. Although discs are a very effective way to stop a vehicle - they need boosting - and this results in the rear's of a single line getting boosted beyond the normal pressure applied by a non-boosted master cylinder.......... the bore size for a disc compatible rear brake cylinder is only 9/16"...... they have different pushrods which are actually buttons and the shoes are different as a result of this........

Plan B is to fit a proportioning valve - I have not done this, but I know of others who have........

Plan C is to fit a dual circuit master cylinder - and only boost the front - affording original rears to run unboosted - I believe this over-comes the lock-up issue......

Plan D - this is the one I'll be doing.....
Most likely an engineer will now want a split system - front and rear hydraulics.......and both boosted.
I know there have been threads on this forum relating to fitting boosted master cylinders (those which are fitted to the firewall as in modern vehicles) as opposed to the remote servo type most of us have - finding what fits and is matched to the brakes you intend to fit is the issue - someone on here made mention of "Hopper Stoppers" in Hoppers Crossing, Victoria - you may wish to either email or telephone them............

It will be the next big step I take - just a single line is a big time accident waiting to happen............... do not believe my handbrake will get rid of any substantial speed if there is a break anywhere in the single line.........

Now your other question

outrigger - the HD/HR one has a longer leg - it also has a rounded fitting designed to be fitted with a round rubber bush.

From FE to EH - the outrigger is shorter and has a rectangular box shaped "nose" this is what is bolted up by a bracket to the underside of your sub-frame........

Rare's have replacement rubbers for this, in fact have the whole cross-member rubber kit - I went to the 'nth degree and fabricated the specified tubes for my cross-members using the "compression" method from the workshop manual - I know most don't and to be quite honest, I didn't find any difference in either the "feel" nor "handling" of my old bus before or after I achieved this.

The outrigger is important, it prevents "twisting" of the cross-member under brakes - some feel it is only there to support the grey motor - but as we all know EH onwards still have them.........

Guess that's about all for now.................

sorry to hijack your post, luke and Kim......

frats,
Rosco

hammondo · Post by **hammondo** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:57 pm

Thanks Rosco, can you boost 4 wheel original drums without any further modification? Would this make a single line system more dangerous with the extra pressure or not really.

Should this be a different thread?

Cheers
Greg

rosco · Post by **rosco** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:02 pm

Hi Greg,
I'm not a brake specialist ................. and am not qualified to state what should be done................ but, my opinion..

If you were to retain the original ratio from front to rear - and boost both using the existing single line - it's fine - your brakes won't work any better or efficiently - it just means you need to apply less pedal pressure - it's a driver "fatigue" issue.........

I do feel, however - there is a small loss of sensitivity response to the driver - as you have probably read elsewhere - the servo is a boost and the ratio is changed - I believe this would "reduce" the "feel" back through your pedal.....

As mentioned, it won't make your car stop any better, just easier to apply.

Yes Greg, we should probably open another thread - I don't feel it's in the context of what Luke and Kim are looking for.............

it has been covered many times before - just where, I'm not sure........
I'd still go with the brakes specialist before making any mods - they should be up to speed (no pun intended) on what the legal requirements are.......

frats,
Rosco