fbekholden.com

Hi guys
Just looking for a quick word of advice.
I noticed on last check that the radiator is in need of a good clean/flush - there was a fair bit of brownish coloured gunk on the cap (fluid looked ok, but the cap looked a worry).
Anyway, took her to a radiator shop near work today and the guys there suggested that it'd be a waste of time flushing the radiator if I wasn't going to flush the engine at the same time. The difference in cost is substantial, so I thought I'd see what you guys think.
The idea that the engine would need to be flushed along with the radiator seems reasonable to me, but I don't have enough cash to throw away if it's not needed.
What do you guys recommend?
Cheers, Scott

Buy some quality radiator flush. Wack it in and drive it around as per the instructions. Then flush it all out with a hose in the reverse direction until it runs clear. You may need to do this a couple of times to get a good job.

The best way to do it is to back pressure flush and then alternate the flow with a power pressure wash machine. (Like the one Wynne's use? to make - maybe they still do?) But you will pay to have this done. I would think under $80 to be done would be about right as it's the best part of 1 1/2 hours to do properly.

Have a bash yourself with radiator flush from your local auto shop.
You may need to remove the radiator thermostat to do the job correctly.

Regards, Smooth

Hey thanks for the reply Smooth
When I spoke to the guys at the radiator place, they quoted me $80 to properly clean the radiator, and $300 if I wanted the engine flushed as well.
Does that sound right?
It seemed more expensive than what I imagined for the work involved.
I might get a few more quotes and if they all seem to be around the same dollar figure, I'll just start by doing it myself for now, as you've suggested.
Cheers, Scott

Scott,

For $300 I'd expect them to knock out the welch plugs in the manifold side of the block ,remove the water pump and pressure wash all the crap and rusty shit out properly and replace the welch plugs with new ones.

That price to me seems nearly double what they should be charging for a pressure flush of the cooling system.

Try the cheap way that smooth describe.
When I clean my cooling systems I use an acid based cleaner that is based on Phosphoric acid.
All you do is add it to the coolant in the radiator and drive it around for a while.
I've even left it in overnight with no adverse effects on cooling system parts.Its not an overly strong acid.

Works well.

Make sure it is all drained and flushed out properly before adding water and rust inhibitor.
I haven't had any success with bars leaks cooling system cleaner if that narrows the choice for you ( and its not acid based ).

If your welch plugs or other cooling system parts are well rusted sometimes the acid cleaner can make them leak but its better to find out a leaking welch plug or other part in the shed and replace it there than try and replace it on the side of the road.

The acid cleaner is about $10 to buy a bottle of it.Sorry but I can't remember its brand name but its available in most places and is in a small white plastic bottle with a red lid.

Hope this helps,

Terry.

Thanks FB Mad...I'll be calling them today to ask exactly what the $300 gets me. If it turns out that they are quoting for a job that includes everything right down to the water pump etc, then I may consider doing it. Otherwise, I'll do it myself
Cheers, Scott

I know this is bringing up an older post but it's still advice related.

I've been working on my red 149 and have it stripped down to block,crank and pistons to replace rear main seals and regasket the engine.

Have knocked out all old rusty steel welch plugs to replace, and clean out all the crap that has accumulated in the block over the last 42 years.Then hung the block upside down from the lifting crane at a 45 degree angle.

First I blew out most of the crap with an air compressor and after spending nearly an hour doing this I then finished it off with a pressure washer.I've managed to get out of the block enough rusty scale,dirt ( probably more general rust but looks like dirt ) silastic and bits of a previously replaced head gasket to near fill a normal size margarine container.

Haven't done to same to the head as yet but would assume that enough would come out of it to fill up the remainder of the margarine container with crap.

This is an example of why it's a good idea to do as much work as you can when cleaning out a cooling system.

This amount of crap if left in the engine would restrict a good radiator in time by blocking the cooling tubes and could also block the head to block water transfer ports as well as possibly creating hot spots low down near the bottom of the bores.
I know most of the heat generated in an engine is concentrated in the upper bore/head area but buildup of crap lower down probably doesn't help things at all.

The only way to really do it properly is similar to what I've done but if you don't want to pull your motor out and apart as I've done at least spend some time if you can by knocking out the welch plugs and give the water jackets a pressure wash even if its only with a garden hose.

Workshop pressure washes without removing the welch plugs and water pump would be better than no pressure wash at all but I feel that the money ( although more expensive ) would be better spent by doing it properly as I have described above.

A good radiator flush and reverse flush is also helpfull especially if combined with air pressure from an air compressor in the flushing process.Do the reverse flush first then follow with normal flow flush.

Finally,don't forget a good rust inhibitor can minimise further rust accumulation problems down the track.

I little bit of time and attention and some dollars if needed doing it the right way could save some headaches and time spent on the side of the road in the summer heat waiting for the cooling system to cool down or worse still, waiting for the car trailer to arrive!!

Hope this helps someone,

Terry.

Well written Terry,

just a couple of thoughts - our systems are designed to work at around 7 - 14 psi - I would suggest not to load up the system with too great a pressure from a compressor - I was taught to use gentle flow of a garden hose at the lower radiator connection together with a little air at the same place to flush the radiator -. a cloth is used to semi seal the connection - I was also told to remove the thermostat housing and thermostat when reverse flushing the block and head.

Finally, don't forget your heater core - I do this by opening the control valve and disconnecting both hoses from the engine - gentle flushing of the heater will probably prevent damage to that fine copper/brass element in a hard to remove Warm-a-ride.

I think everyone would be shocked to find what comes out of our systems - one has to be scrupulously clean to avoid anything falling down those water passages when removing the head and gasket - as far as engine reconditioners go - don't start me on what I found in mine after Gem and probably Repco and possibly a third run through the "mill" as the poor old block/head went in for future service life as "re-conditioned".

I could not get over the fact that there were welch plugs pushed in and not recovered - amongst other amazing bits and pieces (this it the archaeological attribute of our passion).

Thanks Terry - a timely reminder for many to consider making this a seasonal chore............... or at least every two years....

frats,
Rosco

G'day Rosco,

If the cooling system is in good serviceable condition ie- none or minimal restrictions in the radiator tubes etc then it should be able to take near full pressure from the air compressor and yes, it is a must to take the thermostat out as that would create a restriction/blockage as I mentioned above.

Radiator should be pressure flushed separate to the engine pressure flush.

I've used full pressure air ( around 100 psi ) combined with water in lots of customer cars when I was on the spanners all those years ago and never had a problem.I guess that if the system "blows" so to speak that it was going to blow anyway sometime soon due to corrosion or defective gaskets,rubber hoses etc, and better to blow in the workshop and repaired then, than blow on the side of the road somewhere.

As long as the pressure has somewhere to relieve you won't get a full 100 psi in the system, I'm guessing at max maybe 20 psi pressure momentarily.

As Rosco said, I definately would not use full pressure air on a heater core.Too small an area for pressure dispersion and would most likely blow apart.

I wouldn't use full air pressure in modern cars however as a lot have aluminium radiator cores,plastic header tanks and rubber header tank seals and full pressure would most definately blow one of these types apart.

They just don't make 'em like they used to!!

Terry.

Modern mechanics would probably say - "thank goodness".............

Guess we're just dinosaurs, Terry.

Not game to use too much pressure - have seen my radiator "bulge" when I did it the first time - maybe there were blockages...........

It is a little daunting to consider the first place any debris "hits" after the thermostat is the radiator (great filter that!).
I had a modified XY radiator fitted to mine just after putting in the red - you don't want to go there - never ever looked like it was going to do the job.
It had a large header tank which had been "beaten" to accommodate the upper baffle cross-member - put up with it for just on seven years before I found that a standard HK,T,G six radiator fitted just perfectly with a few modifications to the baffle and radiator mount - haven't looked back.......... and can run the EH fan without need to monitor any electro's.

I don't know how many times I had to flush the XY radiator - everything seemed to get trapped - I do not have much respect for engine re-conditioners - for a so called "cleaned up" engine block, it took years to get the system clean - even recently whilst pulling the entire engine down to find that "rattle" (I still have, by the way) I was absolutely disgusted at what they'd left in there - wish I'd looked before fitting everything up to it and installing it back in '82/3. It's finally clean now and re-assuring to know that only coolant is running around in the system..................

Thanks Terry, for you update........

frats,
Rosco

G'day Terry and Rosco.

We have been using the ARB coolant flushing gun in our shop for 8 years now without any problem. And with electrolosis being a major problem these days, it needs to be done properly.
We remove thermostats on every job and reverse flush the system, with the gun hooked up, we use approx 120psi shop air and tap pressure water for the flushing.

(You may think that 120 psi is a lot, but the top end of the radiator is open to discharge and not sealed as in your standard radiator pressure system.) So it's using the pressure to diss-lodge and blast the crude so to speak from the system.

Prior to cleaning this way, we also use a radiator cleaner first, to make sure all the old coolant, corrosion and scale is broken up and loose. We inspect the hoses for hardness and brittlement, and any hose that has corrosion under where the clamp sits is cleaned off also. This is done quite easy with some stainless cable wrapped around twice and used in a see-saw motion.

The good thing about this system we use, we can pick up problem areas before the job goes out, ie: leaking water pumps, welsh plug failures, hose and heater core failures and so on.
As I have found out the hard way, go to great lenghts of cleaning the insides of the cooling system, nice new coolant and inhibitor. Car goes and back in a couple of days later with leaks or failures. Customer not happy.
This way we find problems before the vehicle goes out, Customers notified. Problems rectified, good looking clean cooling system with coolant/inhibitor, Customers are very happy, and we are also confident in no issues with comebacks so everyones happy.

Regards John

Thanks John,
duly noted your method - I don't know of the ARB fun - but will make enquiries.
I suppose I'm just a nervous nellie when it comes to using a lot of air and water - but in principle, I agree that all that force would certainly entice crud to escape.

Hadn't thought of using stainless rope - quite a suitable "tool".

thanks again John,

frats,
Rosco

Sorry Rosco,
Had a momentry lapse of reason, the tool company is ABW and not ARB as I mentioned, just that I have been talking with a few people about ARB 4wd accesories so it stuck in my head. Next time I use it I will post a pic.

Regards John

Thanks again John,
thought the 4WD accessories people may have had reason to make one...........
pic would be good.

frats,
Rosco

Howdy,
A while back I posted a message about getting my hands on a decent grey motor. A lot of great advice - however, the FB is still in the shed with just the block sitting in it. Unfortunately, I don't have the space, tools or time to clean up and rebuild it myself. I've been quoted $2000+ for a reco (and you can imagine what my wife thought of that idea!). Can anyone suggest somewhere in Melbourne/Victoria that I could take the car (or just the engine) to get the block cleaned out and the engine rebuilt for a reasonable price (I've got all the bits - although some may need replacing)?
The engines I've seen for sale so far all still need a fair bit of work to get them cleaned up and in a reasonable condition - although if someone has a car that has a great engine in it, but the body's been smashed by a fallen tree, I'd be very interested in chatting!!!
Any information will be very much appreciated.
Cheers,
Aaron.