fbekholden.com

I would like to get some advice on what method to paint my car.
At the moment I'm in the process of welding in patch pannels were all the holes are after sand/bead blasting the shell ,all the doors and wagon tail gate's are finnished rust free and sprayed with 2 pack etch primer to stop rust from re-occuring!
I am planning to spray the car myself at home so that cancells out 2 pack. Acrylic was going to be my choice but I've just herd of the Clear Over Base system of painting, I need some questions answered please
a. Has anyone used this with good results?
b. Is it relitavely easy to apply?
c. Can it be done at home safely?
d. Do standard FB/EK paint colors come in this method?
e. Would you say a first time painter could do this at home?
Any advice would be appreciated, thanks Trev.

Trev,

What COB are you talking about, 2pack or acrylic. If your talking about COB acrylic than its the same as spraying any acrylic. But if its 2 pack then you will need to spray it in a booth for best results. The base is the same as spraying acrylic but the clear is 2 part and is a slow touch dry and will have a isocynoide hardner. If that gets into your lungs you will wish you were dead.

You can get away with a lot with acrylic, nothing a rub and buff cant fix. Try spraying a test panel and experamenting before you go crazy on a whole car.

Hi Malcolm,
Obviosly I know nothing about COB, like if it was 2pack or acrylic. Sounds like I'd be best to go for the acrylic option?
I'm trying to learn as I go with painting, I figure once I've sprayed the etch primer, hi fill primer, then color and clear I might have a pretty good gun action and like you said nothing that some sandpaper and elbow grease cant fix.

Trev,

If your just starting your painting career I would definately start with a solid acrylic colour. As you said with the application of the etch, and the primer and such this will give you a good understanding of application process eg. overlap of coats ect.
Good luck
Mal

thanks Mal but I wouldn't call it a career, can't see myself making a habbit out of it . Trev

Go acrylic. Its easy, you can do it at home and its not hard to fix any little accidents. Here a pic of my EK done in acrylic. I started rubbing/buffing last Saturday and had most of it done, except the roof, by Sunday arvo.

looks nice dude great work

top job gt
Just out of interest what sort of gun did you use - did a dummy run on mine but comparing the two I think my setup may be wrong
Cheers Nick

I used a gravity fed gun with a 1.4 nozzle. Heaps better "off the gun" finish than a suction gun, plus you dont have to worry about dragging the pot of a suction gun across the horizontal panels (bonnet, roof etc). I ran it at about 40psi on the regulator.

Top paint gt, I'll be wraped if I can get my car looking as good as yours.
Is that your first paint job? Because it looks like you know what you're doing!

Trev wrote:Top paint gt, I'll be wraped if I can get my car looking as good as yours.
Is that your first paint job? Because it looks like you know what you're doing!

Ive painted 3 or 4 cars in my life. I only paint acrylic because of the finish you get, plus its more forgiving than the other paints available.

Hi guys,
I also have painted 3 or 4 cars or is that 5 I cant recall. Acrylic paint is the only way to go if your a back yarder its easy to mix, spray, repair and it should'nt kill you or your neighbours. The only problem with it that it never really sets, and is continually moving especially in the hot and then cold extremes. You need to polish and maintain for a good lasting shine. Repairs underneath also need to be spot on cause after a few months you will see them.
2 pac on the other hand is superior for durability stays shiny and is resistant to stone chips.
In my opinion if you are going to do a full resto that will last I would use 2 pac might be a little dearer but won't need any attention later on.
PS my car will be black and silver and will be 2 pac.

Regards Greg

Thats interesting gt as most people I've spoken to say suction is better for acrylic & 1.7 - 2.0 nozzel - did you mix 100-150 paint/thinners

Thanks for the reply Greg but I will stick to acrylic so I can do it myself.
The other reason is that I had my EK painted in 2pack whitch looked great but I've had a lot of paint chips come off due to little accidents ( doors not lined up properly, removal of door lock, fitting of badges etc) and the paint comes off in chunks rather than minor scratching that is ralitavely easy to repair.

Hi Trev,
I had typed a reply to your question to the forum of about one hundred lines, only to have it all disappear with a wrong key-press!

This will be the condensed version...............

It is refreshing to note that this age-old issue has re-appeared yet once again - and hopefully it will again, and again...............for generations to come I hope (at least we will still have FB/EK's around in such cases, and acrylic paint).

As discussed previously, for a back-yarder it is my firm belief that for spray application, acrylic is probably the most user friendly system I have come across - and is probably the main reason I still use it.

Providing preparation has been performed correctly, the acrylic system offers brilliant results to an amateur (such as ourselves) with very little precision needed.
By its nature, even an acrylic finish which first appears dull can be worked to produce a reasonable gloss lustre which will last and protect for years.

With respect to acrylic COB (clear-over-base).
These are clear top-coats which were developed for use over metal-flake and pearlescent base coats.
The nature of those base coats is to produce an underlying finish consisting of reflective particles which give off that marvellous appearance when subjected to varying light sources.
COB top-coats must be applied over these to "deepen" and protect the finish.

The issue.............
You would probably be aware that if you look around at vehicles finished in acrylic COB which are showing signs of age, there is a chalky dusty and faded decay of the finish. In time this will eventually start to show signs of rust (particularly silver and almost as bad, gold finishes).
Acrylic COB top coats are much softer than that of acrylic solid colours.
Generally speaking, they do not give much warning when they are about to "break down" and seldom can the surface be renovated after this with much success.

In answer to applying COB over acrylic solid colour - the plus side = possibly (and I mean possibly) a slightly higher reflection of depth.

The minus side - and there are at least three which immediately come to mind -

as mentioned, COB is much softer and will reduce the finishes resistance to wear and abuse.

If applied over a solid colour base coat, it becomes a bit of a nightmare after oxidisation commences and polishes with "cutters" are used to restore the finish. Once those clear coats start to wear through and they will before a solid colour coat does, the finish will appear mottled.

If COB coats are thinned too much, the thinners are too "hot" or is applied heavily in cold or humid conditions it may fuse into the base coats and create havoc with the overall finish - one section viewing different to others.

If mixed in with solid colour (and I have played around with this) the exact percentage of COB to solid colour must be maintained with all coats and that ratio remembered for any touch ups. There is still the likelyhood of having difficulty matching touch ups to existing paintwork when different types of thinners are used or applied under different conditions.

When spraying, the underlying coats of resins and fillers from the substrate to the surface will re-activate if too much thinners are applied or insufficient time is allowed for the thinners to "flash off" between coats. This is particularly problem-some when it comes to "mixed in COB" - there is a possibility of the COB "floating" in the mix and getting drawn to the surface with the thinners - I think viscosity has something to do with this. End result is an uneven "depth" when viewing overall. I believe this to be more dependant on colour of paint.

Finally, as correctly mentioned in posts prior to this, acrylic paint does not completely harden - not within our time-frames anyway.
The outer surface will harden in time and we should be mindful of this when "cutting" away oxidisation. The initial cuts may resist abrasion but once that outer layer is gone the softer material underneath will quickly give way to continued rubbing.

The debate on two-pack vs acrylic will linger and linger...........
There are plusses on both sides.
For the back yarder, unless you have a booth and full (I mean FULL) protection, your chances of a full and healthy life are more probable with acrylic. I am led to believe two-pack has cyanide incredients.
Ok, so you spray on a day when the over-spray will blow it over your neighbours fence.................. don't think I'd like to tell them that I may have permanently endangered their children.
Most amateurs believe a decent respirator sufficient for two-pak.
This stuff gets into your blood-stream through the pores of your skin, your eyes and almost anything else exposed to it. If you wish to use it, please read and heed the safety warnings and definately obtain the product information sheets which will probably be handed to you at the point of sale. I would find it hard to believe that a retailer would sell this stuff to an uneducated client.

Two-pack is cures to a very hard finish, granted. Easy to wash, resists scratching, staining and quite a few other nice on-board benefits.
Stone chips, deep scratches or trying to touch up - I believe they outweigh the benefits.

Of course, which ever way you decide to go Trev, I will always offer advice from my extremely limited experience and will not be offended if you choose to disregard it.

I have dabbled with acrylic for 32 years and find I learn new tricks or have to analyse issues almost with every project.

I have plagued local spray-painters and suppliers with questions almost all of that time and offer these humble suggestions as a result of that badgery.

Oops think I may have put the 100 lines back together.........?

frats,
Rosco