is there any way of cleaning /flushing old oil out
doing a oil change whats the best way to get rid of all the oil and start fresh
ive heard of people running disel to clean system but wouldnt do it unless it could be done without damaging engine
any ideas
thanks in advance
oil flushing grey motor
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ek61
- Posts: 1419
- Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 10:09 pm
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- Location: FB-EK HOLDEN CAR CLUB OF SA INC
oil flushing grey motor
"THE JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES BEGINS WITH A BROKEN FAN BELT AND A FLAT TYRE"
***just cruise***
***just cruise***
Years ago when I was a mechanic I had to service a Toyota Landcruiser 6 Cylinder Diesel.Went and undone the sump plug and no oil came out!
However the dipstick showed there was oil in it (or at least something like oil) so I shoved a piece of round bar up the sump plug hole and found that the oil was so thick that it wouldn't come out!
Long time since a service there!
Had to get as much of the oil (was more like a thin grease than oil)out with the round bar as I could and then mixed up a 50/50 mix of engine oil and diesel,poured this into the engine and took the Landcruiser on a 10 Km run.
Then was able to drain the oil as normal.
Same happened a few years later at another dealership I worked for but this time it was a diesel Holden Rodeo.Again same treatment and was able to do a normal oil change.
If you buy the el cheapo engine oil and mix 50/50 with diesel it shouldn't hurt too much but if you take the car on a run don't labour the engine too much.Just do a couple of easy miles and drain the oil when still hot (like Devilrod said)and then fill with the good oil.If you are running an oil filter change that as well.
DISCLAIMER:- The above mentioned statement is from my personal experience.Use your own discretion as to whether you follow this advice.If in doubt seek professional advice.
That should keep the legal eagles at bay
Hope this helps,
Terry.
However the dipstick showed there was oil in it (or at least something like oil) so I shoved a piece of round bar up the sump plug hole and found that the oil was so thick that it wouldn't come out!
Long time since a service there!
Had to get as much of the oil (was more like a thin grease than oil)out with the round bar as I could and then mixed up a 50/50 mix of engine oil and diesel,poured this into the engine and took the Landcruiser on a 10 Km run.
Then was able to drain the oil as normal.
Same happened a few years later at another dealership I worked for but this time it was a diesel Holden Rodeo.Again same treatment and was able to do a normal oil change.
If you buy the el cheapo engine oil and mix 50/50 with diesel it shouldn't hurt too much but if you take the car on a run don't labour the engine too much.Just do a couple of easy miles and drain the oil when still hot (like Devilrod said)and then fill with the good oil.If you are running an oil filter change that as well.
DISCLAIMER:- The above mentioned statement is from my personal experience.Use your own discretion as to whether you follow this advice.If in doubt seek professional advice.
That should keep the legal eagles at bay
Hope this helps,
Terry.
I can't think what to write here so this will do.
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smooth
After being an Oil Wholesaler for over 15 years I can tell you that sludge in the bottom of the sump and/or valley area on V8's or covering rocker gear is "Friction Modifiers" née "Plastic" and typically comes from Castrol.
It is a form of Teflon and other known plastics and my personal opinion is to avoid it (friction modified) oils at all costs.
As for flushing I would be very careful using Diesel although it is known too work. There are many professional engine flushes and the directions should be followed to the letter. If you can find band name Kodiak (NSW) or Auto-King (SA) or even Wynn's you should be pretty safe. Be aware though it could be "Sludge" and "Carbon" holding your engine together.
You are doing the right thing by asking for experiences and advice first.
Regards, Smooth
It is a form of Teflon and other known plastics and my personal opinion is to avoid it (friction modified) oils at all costs.
As for flushing I would be very careful using Diesel although it is known too work. There are many professional engine flushes and the directions should be followed to the letter. If you can find band name Kodiak (NSW) or Auto-King (SA) or even Wynn's you should be pretty safe. Be aware though it could be "Sludge" and "Carbon" holding your engine together.
You are doing the right thing by asking for experiences and advice first.
Regards, Smooth
Agree with smooth on friction modified oils. We were always told at Trade school (TAFE) that we should never use friction modified oils in older engines(this was in the early 1980's) or high detergent oils in older engines.High detergent oils actually clean the engine too much and reduce carbon buildup.If you have a worn engine and the carbon buildup is reduced by high detergent oils then you could actually find that your engine life can be shortened by this.How this happens is very lengthy and time consuming to say here, but all the oil reps at the time would say this and the trade teachers would explain to us apprentices how.
Terry.
Terry.
I can't think what to write here so this will do.
I use Penrite oils when I can get them.From memory they aren't friction modified and they have a range of oils to suit older cars.They probably have a website you could look at to find an oil you would be happy to use.
Don't really use an oil treatment in my old cars but I do use Nulon treatments in my later model cars and have used them for at least 15 years or more with no problems whatsoever.
The old cars were designed to run on plain simple oils without the fandangle exotic treatments there are today so I'd stick to that theory and just use a good quality oil like Penrite for older cars or oil from other companies that suit older engines.
Terry.
Don't really use an oil treatment in my old cars but I do use Nulon treatments in my later model cars and have used them for at least 15 years or more with no problems whatsoever.
The old cars were designed to run on plain simple oils without the fandangle exotic treatments there are today so I'd stick to that theory and just use a good quality oil like Penrite for older cars or oil from other companies that suit older engines.
Terry.
I can't think what to write here so this will do.
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smooth
Yes, what Terry said is correct. A grey motor is designed to run correctly with an oil rated SF/CC which is a very basic oil.
Way back in 1980's when I started selling oil for Pennzoil in Australia the company was own (here in Australia) by two blokes. One of which is now (or was) the owner of Penrite. It was a bit of a legal mess when Pennzoil (USA) learnt of this name. Bottom line the yanks took back distributorship of Pennzoil in Australia and from that day forth Penrite kicked off. (Based on an old trading name from the 1920's) "I believe" this is all from my crappy memory and some things might be a bit hazy.
What isn't hazy though is that US oil from Pennsylvania (The Quaker State) is a very good lubricating oil. Far too good to make petrol from. That's why the yanks buy the crap crewed from the middle east.
Anyway, use a quality brand (doesn't really matter which one) all are built to a standard. Just stick with SF/CC 20W50, 25W50, or Straight 40 weight. Using SG/CF or SH/CF is an overkill and is not helping your old grey in anyway.
Me personally I use either Pennzoil or Valvoline.
Footnote: I no longer sell oils of any kind.
Regards, Smooth
Way back in 1980's when I started selling oil for Pennzoil in Australia the company was own (here in Australia) by two blokes. One of which is now (or was) the owner of Penrite. It was a bit of a legal mess when Pennzoil (USA) learnt of this name. Bottom line the yanks took back distributorship of Pennzoil in Australia and from that day forth Penrite kicked off. (Based on an old trading name from the 1920's) "I believe" this is all from my crappy memory and some things might be a bit hazy.
What isn't hazy though is that US oil from Pennsylvania (The Quaker State) is a very good lubricating oil. Far too good to make petrol from. That's why the yanks buy the crap crewed from the middle east.
Anyway, use a quality brand (doesn't really matter which one) all are built to a standard. Just stick with SF/CC 20W50, 25W50, or Straight 40 weight. Using SG/CF or SH/CF is an overkill and is not helping your old grey in anyway.
Me personally I use either Pennzoil or Valvoline.
Footnote: I no longer sell oils of any kind.
Regards, Smooth
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smooth
Sorry I missed the "Treatment" question.
I don't believe in treatments as such.
Oil companies (all of them) especially the big ones have billions of dollars to make their oils all they can be. What is in the oil is formulated that way for a reason. Adding too it is screwing with the recipe!
That said, to improve an oil is to reduce "friction" and to reduce friction you need one of two things. Perfect surfaces and oil lubricant. Oil lubricant is easy. Perfect metal surfaces not so easy! So to "fill" imperfections in metal surfaces you can add (wait for it).................. PLASTIC of some type I.E: Teflon. Or better still the two softness metals known that you can atomise at an affordable price. Namely Copper and Lead.
The best I have seen using the Copper and Lead principle is CLM from Pro-Ma Systems. This method quashes the very fine copper and lead into any imperfections like hone and bore marks etc, creating the least resistance as possible over time. The only problem with that is finding a rep because it is (or was) sold via multi level marketing. No I'm not a re-seller.
To be honest I haven't seen it for years (but then I haven't been looking) I think it must still exist.
The other brand that comes to mind (plastic) is "Slick 50" and I haven't seen it for ages either.
Personally I would add CLM (Copper Lead Molecules) Brand in my own car but I wouldn't touch the others. It's just my personal opinion..........
Regards, Smooth
I don't believe in treatments as such.
Oil companies (all of them) especially the big ones have billions of dollars to make their oils all they can be. What is in the oil is formulated that way for a reason. Adding too it is screwing with the recipe!
That said, to improve an oil is to reduce "friction" and to reduce friction you need one of two things. Perfect surfaces and oil lubricant. Oil lubricant is easy. Perfect metal surfaces not so easy! So to "fill" imperfections in metal surfaces you can add (wait for it).................. PLASTIC of some type I.E: Teflon. Or better still the two softness metals known that you can atomise at an affordable price. Namely Copper and Lead.
The best I have seen using the Copper and Lead principle is CLM from Pro-Ma Systems. This method quashes the very fine copper and lead into any imperfections like hone and bore marks etc, creating the least resistance as possible over time. The only problem with that is finding a rep because it is (or was) sold via multi level marketing. No I'm not a re-seller.
To be honest I haven't seen it for years (but then I haven't been looking) I think it must still exist.
The other brand that comes to mind (plastic) is "Slick 50" and I haven't seen it for ages either.
Personally I would add CLM (Copper Lead Molecules) Brand in my own car but I wouldn't touch the others. It's just my personal opinion..........
Regards, Smooth
I remember the Copper/lead treatments that smooth mentioned but haven't seen or heard of them since the 1980's.Haven't seen "Slick 50" for a long while now.I use Nulon products in my personal cars as I mentioned a bit before.I don't sell Nulon products nor do I know anyone who does.I'm not on the Nulon company payroll either.Nulon is one of the Teflon,plastic, (polytetrafluoroethylene) treatments smooth spoke of.
I'm a bit like smooth when it comes to miracle cures for engine woes that can be cured by adding a bottle of "Miracle fix"....bit of a doubting Thomas so to speak.
However.........
The following story is embarrassing for an ex mechanic to admit to but is absolutely true.
My wife took her car to a town about 30 km away for shopping.As she was leaving to come home the oil light came on,and stayed on.Doing the right thing,she kept driving with the oil light on contrary to what I've always told her
.
She got home with a noisy motor.Visions of a full rebuild flashed by me when I found there wasn't a drop of oil in the sump...Ooops
.Pulled the sump off expecting to find metal everywhere but found none.Checked the main and big end bearings for wear and bearing crush and found them to be perfect.
Put sump back on,filled engine with oil and restarted.Once oil pressure came up the engine ran as quietly as it always had.
That was 137000 km ago and the engine still runs perfect and now has 341000 on the speedo.The car is an AE 82 Toyota Corolla Twin Cam 4 AGE engine.
The engine should have sh#t itself with no oil over a 30 km drive but didn't.I had Nulon treated the engine since I'd had it and can only guess that the teflon treatment was the only thing that saved it!
Thats why I use Nulon (teflon) treatments and continue to do so.
As smooth said,the oil companies have got their recipe to a "T" and have invested lots of $$$ to get there.Most brand name oils are excellent and its just a matter of choosing a company that makes an oil to suit your engine,however for an old grey motor or other old engine I'd steer clear of treatments and just stick to a simple non friction modified,non high detergent oil and I'm sure you have no problems..
Terry.
I'm a bit like smooth when it comes to miracle cures for engine woes that can be cured by adding a bottle of "Miracle fix"....bit of a doubting Thomas so to speak.
However.........
The following story is embarrassing for an ex mechanic to admit to but is absolutely true.
My wife took her car to a town about 30 km away for shopping.As she was leaving to come home the oil light came on,and stayed on.Doing the right thing,she kept driving with the oil light on contrary to what I've always told her
.She got home with a noisy motor.Visions of a full rebuild flashed by me when I found there wasn't a drop of oil in the sump...Ooops
.Pulled the sump off expecting to find metal everywhere but found none.Checked the main and big end bearings for wear and bearing crush and found them to be perfect.Put sump back on,filled engine with oil and restarted.Once oil pressure came up the engine ran as quietly as it always had.
That was 137000 km ago and the engine still runs perfect and now has 341000 on the speedo.The car is an AE 82 Toyota Corolla Twin Cam 4 AGE engine.
The engine should have sh#t itself with no oil over a 30 km drive but didn't.I had Nulon treated the engine since I'd had it and can only guess that the teflon treatment was the only thing that saved it!
Thats why I use Nulon (teflon) treatments and continue to do so.
As smooth said,the oil companies have got their recipe to a "T" and have invested lots of $$$ to get there.Most brand name oils are excellent and its just a matter of choosing a company that makes an oil to suit your engine,however for an old grey motor or other old engine I'd steer clear of treatments and just stick to a simple non friction modified,non high detergent oil and I'm sure you have no problems..
Terry.
I can't think what to write here so this will do.
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smooth
Good story Terry!
I agree the Teflon treatments like Nulon and "all the other brands" and even to a point the friction modified oils CAN in fact be the savour of engines. Lets face it companies like Wynn's and Nulon drove cars extraordinary lengths without oil to prove what their products can do.
Your story is a good case in point.
The main issue is that people (themselves or their mechanics) never change the oil enough and never flush the old plastics out often enough. (and you do have to flush friction modifiers "plastics" out) or it continues to built up and turn to mud. It can even clog oil feeder holes.
If they were too flush properly and regularly, then all would be sweet and dandy!
Early grey engines are simple in design and simple to maintain they don't need any fancy products to keep them reliable (Except maybe a NASCO oil filter!). Australia was built on the back of these engines across two decades and a great deal are still on the road today without any of these additives.
Regards, Smooth
I agree the Teflon treatments like Nulon and "all the other brands" and even to a point the friction modified oils CAN in fact be the savour of engines. Lets face it companies like Wynn's and Nulon drove cars extraordinary lengths without oil to prove what their products can do.
Your story is a good case in point.
The main issue is that people (themselves or their mechanics) never change the oil enough and never flush the old plastics out often enough. (and you do have to flush friction modifiers "plastics" out) or it continues to built up and turn to mud. It can even clog oil feeder holes.
If they were too flush properly and regularly, then all would be sweet and dandy!
Early grey engines are simple in design and simple to maintain they don't need any fancy products to keep them reliable (Except maybe a NASCO oil filter!). Australia was built on the back of these engines across two decades and a great deal are still on the road today without any of these additives.
Regards, Smooth
Oils
Thats right folks OILS aint OILS!
I have used several brands of oils in my appendix J race car. Brands such as BP coarse 50 ,Kendall ,Torco and at present Penrite 50. It has a 283 chev which I rev constantly to 7000 Rpm, its a worry I know.
Race engines suffer and need constant maintenance so I change the oil and filters every race meeting. Its surprising just how different the oils are and how they react in the same motor. For example the Kendall would become frothy the Torco would be really thick. The Penrite seems to be stable in the chev but my little 4 cylinder run around car fumes with it. My suggestion is to use what the original manual says or as close as possible to it. I have also used oil cleaners through the motor but in all honesty nothing beats a tear down. The metal particles that I still find even after such regular oil changes amazes me. 
Regards Greg
EK 283
I have used several brands of oils in my appendix J race car. Brands such as BP coarse 50 ,Kendall ,Torco and at present Penrite 50. It has a 283 chev which I rev constantly to 7000 Rpm, its a worry I know.
Race engines suffer and need constant maintenance so I change the oil and filters every race meeting. Its surprising just how different the oils are and how they react in the same motor. For example the Kendall would become frothy the Torco would be really thick. The Penrite seems to be stable in the chev but my little 4 cylinder run around car fumes with it. My suggestion is to use what the original manual says or as close as possible to it. I have also used oil cleaners through the motor but in all honesty nothing beats a tear down. The metal particles that I still find even after such regular oil changes amazes me. Regards Greg
EK 283