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FbSTDwagon wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:14 pm These rod bolts are from Holden V8 and fit perfectly, so winner winner chicken dinner.

That's good info. Part number please

Cheers,
Harv

And the last job for the day was to fit the timing gear to the cam.

Fitted the retaining plate and the woodruff key, antiseize on the shaft.

Heated up the gear and slipped it onto the cam, a slight few knocks with the copper dolly into position with .006” clearance between the retainer plate and the timing gear.

Even noticed the nice ‘82’ on the end of the cam!

I dummy fitted the cam and it made me gasp when I seen all of the cam lobes didn’t line up with the lifter holes but I figure that is how the lifters get their spin?

However the dizzy drive is offset from the dizzy hole too…
Does this all look correct?

It has to be correct as I can’t see it working any other way.

Harv wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:56 pm

FbSTDwagon wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:14 pm These rod bolts are from Holden V8 and fit perfectly, so winner winner chicken dinner.

That's good info. Part number please

Cheers,
Harv

Here you got mate… Chevy V8 actually!

Drew,

"I dummy fitted the cam and it made me gasp when I seen all of the cam lobes didn’t line up with the lifter holes but I figure that is how the lifters get their spin?

However the dizzy drive is offset from the dizzy hole too…
Does this all look correct?"

Uh-uh. You forgot the front engine mount plate. That's why the camshaft sits about 5 mm too far rearwards.

Rob

ardiesse wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:46 pm Drew,

"I dummy fitted the cam and it made me gasp when I seen all of the cam lobes didn’t line up with the lifter holes but I figure that is how the lifters get their spin?

However the dizzy drive is offset from the dizzy hole too…
Does this all look correct?"

Uh-uh. You forgot the front engine mount plate. That's why the camshaft sits about 5 mm too far rearwards.

Rob

Ahh of course Rob! Haha im a rookie!
Well that explains that little question, totally makes sense
I’ll dummy the front plate up and do another trial fit tomorrow

The rear cam bearing only has about a 35% hole alignment for the oil to flow from the oil gallery to the cam journal.

What is your opinion on this?

Rear Main Bearing Oil Seal Installation

(Warning: long, detail-heavy post)

By far the least favourite task of anyone building a grey motor is the rear main bearing oil seal. The job's not made easier by the fact that today's rear main bearing oil seals are crap compared with the original equipment ones, which no doubt were woven asbestos.

You have a lathe, so I'd suggest faking a 6A6 - Rear Main Bearing Oil Seal Installer. It'll have two sections of differing diameters. Measure the tunnel diameter where the rear main bearing shells go. Make that the OD of the tool, except for the part which bears on the oil seal. Measure the OD of the seal bearing surface on the crank, then subtract a few thou for the second section, so the finished seal bears down well on the crank.

Preparation: Lay two strips of alfoil on the block at the very rear, where the rear main cap bears down on the block. Torque the cap down. The cap should hold the alfoil in place. If not, find and correct the cause. Next, install the main bearing shells in the block and caps. Lubricate with oil, lay the crank in place, install the bearing caps, torque to spec., check that the crank rotates freely. If this is the case, then remove the crank, and remove the rear main bearing shells from the block and the rear main bearing cap.

Seal Installation in Block: GM-H used to cement the rear main seal in place. I'd suggest doing the same. Use "Blue Max" - an oil-resistant silicone cement. Don't soak the seal in oil before installation. Lay a bead of Blue-Max in the groove, push the seal down with your fingers, then use the "6A6" to form the seal. Use two main bearing cap bolts and a piece of flat bar to tighten the tool down onto the tunnel. Wipe away excess silicone. The registers in the block will be an annoyance here. Using the sharpest knife you can get (or a scalpel), cut the seal back flush with the mating face of the block. Take your time. The seal is fibrous and very tough. Use sharp, flush side-cutters to get rid of stubborn fibres. The seal will need further trimming, but that's for later.

Seal Installation In Cap: Like the block - lay a bead of Blue-Max in the groove. Push the seal in with your fingers, then take the Tool 6A6 out of the block and put it in the cap. Use a G-clamp to seat it in the bore. With the sharp knife, cut the seal away flush with the mating faces. You'll be making a dog-leg cut to accommodate the registers in the rear main bearing cap.

Final Seal Trim In Block: With the installer tool out, cut the "step" in the seal. Try not to distort the sealing surface. Push the seal back into shape with your thumbnail if it wants to move. Patience.

Trial Installation of Rear Main Bearing Cap: Bolt the cap down (no bearing shells, no crank), then remove it and inspect the mating faces for bits of oil seal. Cut them away, or push them down into the groove. When there are no bits of seal on the mating faces, you are good to install the bearings and crank. Oil the seal well, but wipe the oil off the mating faces of cap and block. Put a thin smear of Blue-Max on the rearmost machined face of the rear main bearing cap so oil won't leak out between the faces.

Oh No, the Crank Won't Turn: This is normal immediately after installing the crank. Plug the rear main bearing cap's drain slots (on each side of the cap, on the sump rails) with Blu-Tack, then pour oil in the bottom drain hole of the rear main bearing cap until it's full. Leave it for a day, then remove the Blu-Tack and allow the oil to drain away.

Rob

Rear Cam Bearing: It's misaligned. Your view is from the rear of the block, isn't it? That view suggests it needs to go in further, but your camshaft photo suggests that it's been pressed in too far. At first guess, I'd say flush with the front of the bore would be the right place. Check the dimensions on your other J-block, and from the next trial-fit of the camshaft. Do you have the special, shallow welch plug for the camshaft bore? If not, you can put the lathe to use again.

While you're at it, I'd suggest checking the no.3 cam bearing to make sure the two oil holes are aligned, otherwise you won't get any oil flow up to the rocker gear.

Rob

Told ya didn’t I drew? Red motor is easy by comparison, specially neoprene seal versions. They all leak in the end, sadly.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

ardiesse wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:36 pm Rear Cam Bearing: I think it hasn't been pressed in far enough. Your view is from the rear of the block, isn't it? Check the dimensions on your other J-block, and from the next trial-fit of the camshaft. Do you have the special, shallow welch plug for the camshaft bore? If not, you can put the lathe to use again.

While you're at it, I'd suggest checking the no.3 cam bearing to make sure the two oil holes are aligned, otherwise you won't get any oil flow up to the rocker gear.

Rob

That photo was taken from the back of the block through where the welsh plug will be.

Looking from the front the bearing is pressed into the block neatly. Lineal position of the bearing is fine is more the question about the oil gallery alignment.

Yes I will check the other cam bearings.

Errol62 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:50 pm Told ya didn’t I drew? Red motor is easy by comparison, specially neoprene seal versions. They all leak in the end, sadly.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

Can’t build a Grey by building a Red Clay!

Rob that was an excellent instruction on fitting the RMS.

Yes the RMS in the gasket kit is just rubbish, I don’t know how they still even sell them.

However I have met a fella here in Adelaide who said a few of his mate race grey motors and the use a Mercedes Benz RMS in the their greys, so I went ahead and grabbed a couple to try out.

They are a hard rope type seal with a coated silver frosting.
Measure 8.1mm wide x 8.8mm high
Aka .320” x .346” … no idea what it equates to in fractions.

FbSTDwagon wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:05 pm Here you got mate… Chevy V8 actually!

Thankyou.

Cheers,
Harv

Drew,

Somewhere on this forum (or maybe FE-FC) I have the dimensions of the grey motor seal groove. But it's easier to find an old rear main cap with seal in place and measure it -

Base of groove: about 6.5 mm wide
Top of groove: about 9.3 mm wide
Seal depth (installed): about 8.2 mm

Seal cross-section is 8.2x(6.5+9.3)/2 sq.mm, close enough to 64.0 mm^2. The Merc seal is 8.1x8.8, about 65 mm^2. Looking at my old rear main cap, the OEM Holden seal spreads out to nearly 13 mm wide in the gap between the main bearing cap and the crankshaft. You'd need to taper the cross-section of the Merc seal (softwood and a hammer?) before installing it.

It would be a real achievement if the Merc seal's length was a complete circumference of the Holden crankshaft, and you could fit it in one piece, with the join at the "bottom" of the tunnel in the block. But the more I think about it, the less possible it looks.

Rob

P.S. - your rear cam bearing will still let enough oil through to lubricate properly.

Cheers Rob, yes I will work the RMS very patiently and take my time, I have it on good work that they work well so I am happy to take the gamble.

Thanks for the opinion on the rear cam oil hole - all good too!

Front engine plate has had the ‘knock around’ as you suggested and I have it sitting tight around the oil feed area.
When I bolted it to the block before I could fit a feeler guage between the plate and block into the oil feed chamber, but not anymore, it’s nice and tight on the block.