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WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
Got these at home, are they the correct donor box Rob ????
Sent from my SM-A705YN using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-A705YN using Tapatalk
When you're faced with an unpleasant task that you really don't want to do, sometimes you just have to dig deep down inside and somehow find the patience to wait for someone else to do it for you.
Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
Blacky,
Yes, those are two EH-and-later crashboxes. Now, beware:
The red motor input shaft is longer than the grey motor input shaft, so they won't interchange.
The red motor mainshaft is probably longer than the grey mainshaft, the speedo drive gear is further forward on the red mainshaft than on the grey mainshaft, and the main bearing snap ring groove is in a different relative position. So the mainshafts don't interchange.
The grey 1st-reverse sliding gear has a collar and groove on it for the shifter yoke to engage into. On the red 1st-reverse sliding gear, the collar and groove are deleted, and the red shifter yoke has two "fingers" to engage the gear. A red 1st-reverse gear won't work in a grey gearbox, because the grey shifter yoke can't grab onto it.
EJ/early EH second speed gears may be the same as the grey motor second speed gear; but late EH-HK second speed gears were revised with slightly different dimensions.
The red motor synchro hub will probably not mate with a grey mainshaft, because of different spline dimensions. And if you could, there'd be no point, because the red synchro hub is designed to be compatible with the red input shaft and mainshaft.
The outer splines on a red synchro hub and 1st-reverse gear have subtly different dimensions from their grey equivalents, so you can't fit a grey 1st-reverse gear to a red synchro hub and vice-versa.
You might be able to fit a red cluster gear and shaft to a grey gearbox if you get the cluster shaft bores machined out to take the red cluster shaft.
As far as I know, the red and grey reverse idler gears interchange.
So I think that the only "red" components that can be adapted to a grey gearbox are the cluster gear, shaft and needle rollers.
But you need to find someone who specialises in crashboxes. They will know what is possible.
Rob
Yes, those are two EH-and-later crashboxes. Now, beware:
The red motor input shaft is longer than the grey motor input shaft, so they won't interchange.
The red motor mainshaft is probably longer than the grey mainshaft, the speedo drive gear is further forward on the red mainshaft than on the grey mainshaft, and the main bearing snap ring groove is in a different relative position. So the mainshafts don't interchange.
The grey 1st-reverse sliding gear has a collar and groove on it for the shifter yoke to engage into. On the red 1st-reverse sliding gear, the collar and groove are deleted, and the red shifter yoke has two "fingers" to engage the gear. A red 1st-reverse gear won't work in a grey gearbox, because the grey shifter yoke can't grab onto it.
EJ/early EH second speed gears may be the same as the grey motor second speed gear; but late EH-HK second speed gears were revised with slightly different dimensions.
The red motor synchro hub will probably not mate with a grey mainshaft, because of different spline dimensions. And if you could, there'd be no point, because the red synchro hub is designed to be compatible with the red input shaft and mainshaft.
The outer splines on a red synchro hub and 1st-reverse gear have subtly different dimensions from their grey equivalents, so you can't fit a grey 1st-reverse gear to a red synchro hub and vice-versa.
You might be able to fit a red cluster gear and shaft to a grey gearbox if you get the cluster shaft bores machined out to take the red cluster shaft.
As far as I know, the red and grey reverse idler gears interchange.
So I think that the only "red" components that can be adapted to a grey gearbox are the cluster gear, shaft and needle rollers.
But you need to find someone who specialises in crashboxes. They will know what is possible.
Rob
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
I've never tried to reverse-engineer red motor guts into a grey crashie by modification, but I have tried to put standard red motor bits in (interchange).ardiesse wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:36 pmAs far as I know, the red and grey reverse idler gears interchange.
So I think that the only "red" components that can be adapted to a grey gearbox are the cluster gear, shaft and needle rollers.
But you need to find someone who specialises in crashboxes. They will know what is possible.
The following red motor bits are interchangeable with a grey motor crashbox:
- Countershaft needle roller bearings and counter gear retaining ball
- Clutch gear bearing
- Synchro cone retaining ring, cone and spring
- Mainshaft second speed gear (though these changed in HDs), thrust washer and lock ring
- First and reverse sliding gear (though these changed in EH)
- Reverse idler gear, shaft, pin and thrust washer
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
sounds doable HarvHarv wrote:I've never tried to reverse-engineer red motor guts into a grey crashie by modification, but I have tried to put standard red motor bits in (interchange).ardiesse wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:36 pmAs far as I know, the red and grey reverse idler gears interchange.
So I think that the only "red" components that can be adapted to a grey gearbox are the cluster gear, shaft and needle rollers.
But you need to find someone who specialises in crashboxes. They will know what is possible.
The following red motor bits are interchangeable with a grey motor crashbox:
- Countershaft needle roller bearings and counter gear retaining ball
- Clutch gear bearing
- Synchro cone retaining ring, cone and spring
- Mainshaft second speed gear (though these changed in HDs), thrust washer and lock ring
- First and reverse sliding gear (though these changed in EH)
Cheers,
- Reverse idler gear, shaft, pin and thrust washer
Harv
You’ll find me lost somewhere!
Last edited by FJWALLY on Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
You will find me lost somewhere!
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
What was the first bit of the second bit you said you two ??????
When you're faced with an unpleasant task that you really don't want to do, sometimes you just have to dig deep down inside and somehow find the patience to wait for someone else to do it for you.
Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
This gearbox discussion really does deserve a separate thread. Very interested in all this as I said.
I think Harv put up some dot points which I couldn't see any text.
Meantime , where's Wally??
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I think Harv put up some dot points which I couldn't see any text.
Meantime , where's Wally??
Sent from my SM-A705YN using Tapatalk
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
EK van on rotisserie
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
I'm here - sorry - had a Cricket breakup yesterday - a touch messy.
It would be an awesome exercise to get a Grey box done with Red Internals - I'd be happy to front such an exercise but the machining part is beyond me.
Who would be a good person to try and do it? Would Roger take on such an exercise?
New thread started so feel free to continue discussion there - I have copied over some of the comments above to save any replication
It would be an awesome exercise to get a Grey box done with Red Internals - I'd be happy to front such an exercise but the machining part is beyond me.
Who would be a good person to try and do it? Would Roger take on such an exercise?
New thread started so feel free to continue discussion there - I have copied over some of the comments above to save any replication
You will find me lost somewhere!
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
A little colour 
You’ll find me lost somewhere!
You’ll find me lost somewhere!
You will find me lost somewhere!
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
Engine enamel, FJW?
To match the existing theme and convention, are you going to rub the paint off and polish the fins?
frats,
Rosco
To match the existing theme and convention, are you going to rub the paint off and polish the fins?
frats,
Rosco
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
hi Rosco yes same colour as existing theme - VHT engine enamel SP 121 Bright Red
Yes when finished I intend to finish off the Fin edges to again match back into the current theme - it looks very very red right now but the majority of that is masking tape which will leave the clean Alloy beneath.
Yes when finished I intend to finish off the Fin edges to again match back into the current theme - it looks very very red right now but the majority of that is masking tape which will leave the clean Alloy beneath.
You will find me lost somewhere!
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
I expect you'll have a "unique" display, FJW... keen to optic it myself..
I like polished alloy and stainless - hate chrome in engine bays... but, with polish - comes "work"... a labor I'm prepared to commit...
Alloy also looks quite good in "satin" natural.. and is probably more heat conductive in that state... but, to me - I love the full on mirror finish of highly polished alloy...
Your bay is going to look amazing - I can see your face beaming when you fit the Wray up and it adds a further huge amount of detail to it.... not to mention the mechanical procurement...
frats,
Rosco
I like polished alloy and stainless - hate chrome in engine bays... but, with polish - comes "work"... a labor I'm prepared to commit...
Alloy also looks quite good in "satin" natural.. and is probably more heat conductive in that state... but, to me - I love the full on mirror finish of highly polished alloy...
Your bay is going to look amazing - I can see your face beaming when you fit the Wray up and it adds a further huge amount of detail to it.... not to mention the mechanical procurement...
frats,
Rosco
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
Cheers Rosco - I love the way there are so many variations in how different owners do up their cars - it's really interesting to me and there is nothing worse than going to shows and seeing clone after clone after clone - to me thats the joy in clubs like this - everyone is different.
You will find me lost somewhere!
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
Totally agree, FJW.... there is only one further comment I would add to yours.... "original" vehicles on display - should only be one "theme" but I have also seen variants in that theme where the vehicle is put on display with differing "options" and accessories...
When it comes to sports and modified, the rules bend and disappear altogether.... modified, although "based" on an FB or EK whatever - can look like a Kentucky fried chook.... and still qualify for exhibition..
In sports, I have seen many variants - and I believe this is where your project fits in... it certainly will be a stunner, and will draw a lot of attention.
It has always been said, "imitation is the greatest form of flattery"... I'm going to try and keep my big fat head from popping my hat here, but I take a lot of humor from seeing vehicles at nationals who have followed my work.... it is also of great satisfaction to see that people actually listen and read what I have to say about achieving the outcome....
When it comes down to it, there is a very healthy competition between exhibitors - that extra little bit of "bling" or something "unique" in the way componentry is exhibited often draws the camera out... and the following year, we see duplication...
I wonder how many "Wray" units we'll now see coming into the mix - I'm guessing, if there are any which become available - they will be snavelled up pronto and you will attract questioning on how you achieved the installation...
For a time, successive red 6 cyl motors then V8's and Commodore V6's installations were those which pulled heads... I firmly believe the tide is turning, they have become "dull" from over-use... in "modified, we rarely ever see a grey motor... red/blue/black motors are probably the base line in this category... unless there is something unique about the build, they no longer draw the attention once enjoyed.
"New" themes, like yours are on the way back.... it is refreshing to see that attention seems to be returning towards what was "factory" based - yet out in left field from the period....
Well done, FJW - I very much hope you have instigated a new direction with this build... and very much look forward to future projects which are based on the grey driveline.....
I have concerns that the peers will accept your Wray will fit in with "sports". but, in concept - it is the king pin front end, grey motor and gearbox... so, I suspect it will be allowed... I would vote that it should - and my suspicion is that the majority would do likewise...
frats,
Rosco
When it comes to sports and modified, the rules bend and disappear altogether.... modified, although "based" on an FB or EK whatever - can look like a Kentucky fried chook.... and still qualify for exhibition..
In sports, I have seen many variants - and I believe this is where your project fits in... it certainly will be a stunner, and will draw a lot of attention.
It has always been said, "imitation is the greatest form of flattery"... I'm going to try and keep my big fat head from popping my hat here, but I take a lot of humor from seeing vehicles at nationals who have followed my work.... it is also of great satisfaction to see that people actually listen and read what I have to say about achieving the outcome....
When it comes down to it, there is a very healthy competition between exhibitors - that extra little bit of "bling" or something "unique" in the way componentry is exhibited often draws the camera out... and the following year, we see duplication...
I wonder how many "Wray" units we'll now see coming into the mix - I'm guessing, if there are any which become available - they will be snavelled up pronto and you will attract questioning on how you achieved the installation...
For a time, successive red 6 cyl motors then V8's and Commodore V6's installations were those which pulled heads... I firmly believe the tide is turning, they have become "dull" from over-use... in "modified, we rarely ever see a grey motor... red/blue/black motors are probably the base line in this category... unless there is something unique about the build, they no longer draw the attention once enjoyed.
"New" themes, like yours are on the way back.... it is refreshing to see that attention seems to be returning towards what was "factory" based - yet out in left field from the period....
Well done, FJW - I very much hope you have instigated a new direction with this build... and very much look forward to future projects which are based on the grey driveline.....
I have concerns that the peers will accept your Wray will fit in with "sports". but, in concept - it is the king pin front end, grey motor and gearbox... so, I suspect it will be allowed... I would vote that it should - and my suspicion is that the majority would do likewise...
frats,
Rosco
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
Hope so Rosco - Ive tried hard to use only what was available in same era bar little upgrades like the trutrac - By my understanding of the definition it fits into Sport perfectly
You’ll find me lost somewhere!
You’ll find me lost somewhere!
You will find me lost somewhere!
Re: WRAY T96 SUPERCHARGER refurb and install
I would challenge any comment that it does not fit Sports, FJW.
Follow on from my previous, one thing which has amazed me - is that we have seen larger motors fitted to our vehicles, but I am yet to see or learn of anyone fitting a smaller motor.... not in output, but in size...
With many 4WD and SUV vehicles now starting to find the scrap heap, and not before long will be those fitted to small passenger cars - I am surprised that someone has not decided to fit a small turbo-diesel yet...
There are smaller units available which I believe would fit nicely into the engine bay... they have amazing torque output, and economy would be incredible... the clatter of the diesel motor would not be too far beyond that of an old grey.... and, the pathetic 9 1/2 gallon fuel tank would make for a realistic travel range....
Now, that would be "unique" at a Nats...
Food for thought?
frats,
Rosco
Follow on from my previous, one thing which has amazed me - is that we have seen larger motors fitted to our vehicles, but I am yet to see or learn of anyone fitting a smaller motor.... not in output, but in size...
With many 4WD and SUV vehicles now starting to find the scrap heap, and not before long will be those fitted to small passenger cars - I am surprised that someone has not decided to fit a small turbo-diesel yet...
There are smaller units available which I believe would fit nicely into the engine bay... they have amazing torque output, and economy would be incredible... the clatter of the diesel motor would not be too far beyond that of an old grey.... and, the pathetic 9 1/2 gallon fuel tank would make for a realistic travel range....
Now, that would be "unique" at a Nats...
Food for thought?
frats,
Rosco