PPC - POR system

[rosco]

The day after - just had to "check" those bubbles were covering a solid base of paint - blocked back the entire paint job from yesterday - started with the recommended 600 and moved down finally to 120 dri-lube - found that this was harsh enough to break the surface then worked up to 320 for final blocking - this stuff is darned hard to cut - I'm glad I got into it the following day and not the 4 days it takes to get full hardness...................

pic is just prior to tea tonight




Tea got put on hold..................

Had it all set, masked and ready to re-spray but decided to take one more peek at the toy gun - found the stuffing box at the rear of the needle was loose - guess that explains the sputtering as it tried to pick up and atomise the paint.............

Got it to "flow" really well after fixing that - but...................

have re-sprayed but gone from one extreme to the other - have a few runs down the panel where the paint from underneath the seal channel submitted to gravity - don't want to block it back again............ but......

frats,
Rosco (still the raccoon!)

[Malcolm]

Rosco, you are truely a patient man, by now I would have painted it with proofcoat & just kept the boot shut.

Keep going, you will win in the end.

Mal

[rosco]

As mentioned before - my stuff ups always look better when I go back after a break - it's not what I want - but left it alone today.
This time I decided to "play" with another of the POR products.........

This one is Glisten PC - it is still a rock hard coating but very, very different to the POR 15 I have been playing with for the past few days.

This one is intended for alloys, brass, stainless, copper, aluminium and even chrome (I'm looking forward to "sealing" some of my not-so-good chrome against the elements).

I took to the spare wheel clamp, boot-lid striker plate, carby, door scuff plate, external seat belt bolt head and a heap of other small bits and pieces.

The process is fairly straight forward - basically polish, clean, prep and paint.
I used a brush on all work today - I have yet to contact the makers to establish if there is any iso-cyanate in the two part product before spraying - it will spray perfectly - this stuff can be thinned by up to 40% and surface dries in around 30 minutes. It does, however take four days to fully harden and the instructions clearly state not to "touch" it until fully cured.....................

ever seen finger marks on seats, walls etc when one of those "wet paint" signs is posted - it has become a "passion" of mine to inspect the paint - you'd be surprised how many people just cant resist - this stuff is exactly the same (I had to "touch" one little piece just for for curiosity - you understand).

Ok here we go - I used the POR Artisan polish to buff up each piece - marvelous stuff- $26 for a small tub of it, but good, good results - especially if you want to hand work zinc plated stuff see below.....



This was before I brushed the Glisten PC on - it sort of looks identical but with a "deeper" shine......

I also hand polished one of the door striker plates and coated it with the paint ........... see below...



It was very interesting to "watch" the brush marks disappear......... they did on the first coat.
It states to apply two coats for automotive - next time I will "thin" both down - my second coat "stuck" to the first one when I brushed it on and had to be brushed well to marry the two...............
If I can spray this stuff, I will do all my chrome-work - it gives very little indication that it is there - water clear, no yellowing, and self-leveling....
Just as the instructions state...............

You must follow the instructions to get the stuff to stick - it gives a number of warnings if you stray...............

It says it will eventually harden to "rock" hard and won't chip, peel or crack - just like all the POR range.

One thing I found a lot easier to "live" with was that this can be removed fairly easily if you get it on yourself or something you don't want to - with the solvent - be warned, the solvent will damage your body paintwork (car that is).......

So, readers - my impression - yep - go spend a tank-full of fuel on it for 500ml "pack" and have a play - you will also need the prep for alloys - AP 120 and some POR solvent - the POR Artisan metal polish is probably the "best" metal polish I have ever used - sorry Megiars.......guess someone is going to benefit from my stock of it............

frats,
Rosco (still the raccoon....)

[Malcolm]

Rosco, it looks to be very good.
I hope your going to line up the screw slots, vertical/horizontal on the strikers

[parisian62]

Rosco,

Thanks for that product review of glisten. Very helpful. I've been thinking of using it on some polished steel bits/brackets etc

regards
Stewart

[rosco]

Thanks Malcolm - your are obviously a "master" in our craft..........

I haven't got around to getting convention completed with a lot of the car as yet - I did with the engine bay (put all bolts/nuts/screws within reason) in the same orientation.

Just about to go block back the second coat of POR 15 to get those "runs" out - guess that will take care of Thursday, 27th March ........

I may have to put "blinkers" on you when you take a peek at my old bus - didn't think many would notice this craftsman discipline ........... honored to be enlightened that some are noticing............

Stewart, be very careful if you intend to use this product on uncoated steel - there is a very loud warning about "spider rust" - they offer a contact number if you wish to proceed .....................

frats,
Rosco (the vanishing raccoon)

[Malcolm]

Hey Rosco,

I certainly wouldn't class myself as a master in any field but I am looking forward to casting an eye over your car at Yamba, but most of all finally getting to meet you and all the others on the forum that have helped me with my stupid questions and given me help over the past 18 months that I've been putting together this creation.

mal

[rosco]

Likewise Malcolm,
there have been many on this forum who I feel I now know quite intimately and look forward to linking physical presence to the dialogue we have enjoyed over the past (almost) 12 months since Forbes.........

Stewart - warning...... Glisten PC can be very deceptive - it states that it has a 2-3 hour "use" - don't extend on that time - I did and will have to somehow remove the coating from my trailer socket - it has "dulled"..............
There was no visual warning that this stuff had "gone off" - ie, did not show any signs of hardening, yellowing or becoming less sticky - I used up most of what was left in the jar some 4 hours after mixing it - all other coatings are fine........... hope this has not caused any one else failure with the product.

And......... just leave what ever you have coated items with alone - for the full 4 days - put them away out of the dust and forget them - I now have one piece which the Police will be able to identify for me by my fingerprints......now deeply embedded into what I believe will be an in-penetrable coating.

Have blocked back the inner rear end panel (again) and will apply Blackcote over it some time on the weekend - I don't believe the second coat of POR 15 was as "rock hard" as the first - again, I don't think I will "store" any future left over paint - just be mindful to mix up just enough to do your job - and....... don't leave any of these cans open any longer than absolutely essential - they are not "normal" paints - they cure by humidity.
I have a lovely "pad" of POR 15 which skinned on the top 1/3 of one of my mixes - the jar was opened for less than 10 minutes, total........ but left for two days 1/3 full.............. lessons for you - at my expense.....

frats,
Rosco (now the ex raccoon - 4 days for it do "wear" off! - as the instructions stated)

[rosco]

Further to this morning's effort - have now finished sanding back the luggage compartment floor - it was satisfactorily finished in "hammered metal" charcoal epoxy - but decided to coat it in POR - so............. sanded back the surface.

POR market a product called Tie Coat - it's the missing link between POR 15 and any other paint system - it's main purpose to to overcoat POR 15 so that a different "system" can be applied over it - this is what I intend to do with future bare metal panels prior to spraying the acrylic system - tie coat will link the POR 15 to acrylic primer.

I brushed the tie coat on - this is what is currently happening on the underside - all those coats of hammered metal are not going to be wasted......

I sanded back with 80 grit dri-lube (fingers are just about down to final layer of epidermis - very, very sore) a clean with Marine Clean, rinse and one coat of Tie Coat - this stuff does not need to be sanded between coats - only the final coat before top-coating - it also is the "perfect" link for POR 15 - it can be applied directly over it up until about 6 months after curing...................

So, first pic is of the sanded back hammered metal......



Second pic is as it now sits in tie coat - 12 hours and it can be either re-coated or top coated - this will be done in Black Cote - will give a similar report when that lid gets lifted..........



You will also see that the acrylic primer is "flattening" ready for guide coat and blocking back - this will be finished in a number of acrylic black coats - possibly compounded for Yamba........... got a lot to do under the car and luggage compartment may yet be presented as a "work in progress" display.......

frats,
Rosco (the raccoon has left the building)

[oldnek]

Rosco, Your going to a lot work just for the boot. Or have you got some other plans for the boot usage
I think Mal's build has given you a little spur on, so now you've got a little edge on to tidy the old girl up.

I must admit, Mals car has given me the thought to spruce up mine. Or rebuild her.

Regards John

[rosco]

Thanks John,
no other use intended for boot........ but it's part of the car and I love working on it......... I try to apply the same amount of effort in every area I work on - it's my way of bringing up the standard of the overall appearance and enjoyment ..........

I've been on a "mission" with this car since 1972 - the only thing which has changed in my approach has been the degree of access to equipment/affordability/availability of time/and development of skills..........

I look back at some of the early stuff I did and cringe - this car is a bit like the Sydeny Harbour Bridge - it will never be finished, but I enjoy the challenge of applying some new approach - given the chance to go back and keep it tidy in original condition - a nano-second later - you'd have me offering any limb you chose........ but it can't be done - from the very first cut - it's no longer original - I hope those who still have these magnificent specimens take note of my opinion.......... get another "also ran" if you want to modify - more so : the more original

I am considered a bit "strange" around these parts, John - one neighbour actually thought I'd died and someone was opening the roller door daily to remove the smell of my corpse - all they saw was two feet and a light - day after day after day....................

It's my passion and hopefully will be until that time comes -

frats,
Rosco

[rosco]

POR continued...............
Was going to post up yesterday's little play but didn't come in for tea until 22:30 -shower, tea and bed.............sorry.

Yesterday's little target was to have a go at the panels behind the rear seat - I had covered them for refurb protection but after reading the info sheet on Tie Coat - decided to go ahead and finish them in acrylic as will be the covers and framework.

The instruction sheet states Tie Coat to be an almost impenetrable coating between POR and any paint system - I then decided I would put this to the test and apply it over the existing enamel (which I worked and worked to get a satisfactory flat gloss finish on some time back - see pic 1)



I removed the masks and blocked down with a small (1" x 1") metal block using 240 grit dri-lube - it took a bit to break the surface but once under, it started to chalk away quite controllably - see pic 2)



Wiped down and washed with Marine Clean then dried it off to parched.

Mixed up the Tie Coat with 10% POR solvent and sprayed with the toy gun @ 35 psi - I don't know why, but in three places, there were "fish eyes" (those little circles where the coat runs away from - I think there may have been something in the enamel - I remembered the same thing after the first enamel coat went onto enamel primer..........I closed down the spray pattern to "circle", screwed in the needle (paint) and wound in the air valve a bit and did some "spot" shooting at the "eyes"- result is quite good - it "stuck" on the second attempt.



I'll leave it until Wednesday and then block it down - two/three coats of acrylic primer (this should test the claim of it creating a barrier from the enamel) then the intended acrylic areas will be ready for guide coat and blocking back ready for black acrylic top coats.

Will give you reports on what happened under those "eyes" and if the acrylic primer breaks through Tie Coat........... I do not intend to treat this gently - this information will be needed for intended application on bare metal panels treated with POR 15............

frats,
Rosco

[rosco]

Further to (for those still watching)...............

Tie coat came up a treat - but.............. be warned, do NOT apply any more than is sufficient to cover the surface - its purpose is to "tie" two different components together - unlike primer, which serves both to "build" the surface and "bond" etch to topcoat.................if applied too heavily, will take days to cure - a thin coating as all that is necessary.

pic below is the Tie coat "blocked" back - note all the "layers" of different primers - yellow, white, two greys, black and now blue.
This gives the impression there were multiple issues and looks quite "ordinary" - I can assure you, it is only one or two rubs of the sanding pad which results in a different colour........... I believe I had most of this flat enough to result in a very rewarding top-coating............



Tie coat is NOT an isolator (insulative barrier)- although resistant to solvent based paints - will NOT provide a barrier - another blocking back today after primer/surfacer blistered the underlying enamel system....................

Today, I had a "discussion" with the nationwide distributor - and stated my dis-satisfaction with the claim that it was an "almost impenetrable" barrier between systems - it is NOT! as experienced.
It probably will be fine for most docile systems, but the highly volatile and penetrating solvent/chemicals in acrylic laquer have well and truly blistered my finish. After blocking back (2nd for day) I decided to apply a 1K etch (531) over the flattened damage - with an excellent result.
After 30 minutes (my usual procedure) I again hit it with primer surfacer - only to have the blistering re-appear........... I am using Motor-spray super-glow thinners - probably slightly "hotter" than the mid-range Standox I have great confidence in.

So, dear readers - I have paid for problems you are not going to have - heed this advice and do not apply Tie Coat as an insulative barrier over enamel (or 1K etch) - another blocking back tomorrow.............

I went back to my supplier this afternoon - and they were as "shocked" as I - I would be an asset to their team, I am certain they heed a lot of my experience and noted much inter-active exchanges within the staff as I waffled through the process. I also stated my "discussion" with the distributor and believe future direction will avoid customers suffering my experience.

So, the rear seat partitions are again in primer/surfacer - and waiting to be blocked down yet again.



I have now purchased a litre of Upol (POR related company) Insulative Barrier - it is alcohol based and must NOT be sanded after application...
Let you know how it goes - maybe tomorrow, if my fingers can take another bashing with abrasive paper............

Further to Glisten PC - whilst discussing the Tie Coat issue - I made enquiries as to the "working" of Glisten PC - once cured - I was told that it hardens to that of POR 15 or BlackCote - and is fully "workable" once cured - it can be blocked back, cut and polished - let you know how I go with that when I address some "runs" on the carby......

Stay tuned for the next exciting episode in my experiences with the POR system - I am truly a believer - just a little disgruntled with my experience with Tie Coat.....

frats,
Rosco

[oldnek]

Rosco, do you think you would of had these problems, if you would of sprayed a primer sealer, on the original surface. I think maybe you have bleed from the POR products, softning the under layer. So many chemicals on the acrylic in the boot from factory as well as bituman base and sealer, would finaly have to react if you hit it with something non compatable on top.
Just a thought.
Regards John

[rosco]

Thanks John,
my fingers are far too sore to type much tonight - The issues I am having are with the partition boards I fitted - 3 ply, which were enamel primed and top-coated.
I hadn't intended to touch them as they were quite acceptable - but........
just had to play with the new system (Tie Coat) and see if it was useful for isolating (as the instructions suggested) - not entirely, definitely not in this application.........

The remainder of the refurbs (which were hand-sanded to bare steel) all came up through the acrylic process - 1K etch, primer/surfacer/fine filler/primer-surfacer repeated over and over until the guide coat revealed all voids and crowns addressed and have really been ready for top-coating about two blockings ago........

Where the Tie Coat over-lapped my acrylic - there were some issues - but minor - I decided to block these out back to the acrylic beneath and this has now rectified the problem.

Today - another blocking back and prep-wash - then applied another POR related product marketed by Upol - called Bar Coat isolator - worked absolutely perfect - result now is that the whole refurb with is to be acrylic tip coated is (again) sitting in primer/surfacer.

Will let the thinners flatten then - guide coat in a few days - there are supposed to be a few 20 deg days coming up - this is getting to be the end of our backyarders spray painting "window" until late October.

Hopefully top coats in two sessions with a flat blocking between will come in the next two weeks..........................

This has been my acrylic "system" with the exception of the roof - I am ashamed to confess that I threw 7 1/2 litres of mixed acrylic up there in four sessions, blocking back between each - I am happy with the result..... I am only a short bloke and working up on top of Everest is well beyond my comfort level - glad to have at least one foot back on the floor at any given time......(I built a special "platform" to make reaching over centre easier and slung a hook to keep the air line suspended).
I don't know how many times whilst applying primer/surfacer on that roof, John - when I nearly up-ended myself on reaching teh end of the platform - I ended up fitting "buffer stops" for my shoe to "find" so I wouldn't topple off the end......... like working from the floor - don't like aerial gymnastics with a spay gun.......

Post something up tomorrow - fingers just can't hit these keys any longer
- the pain barrier is starting to break again and I'm not looking forward to it coming back ...... post up tomorrow.....

frats,
Rosco