fbekholden.com

62ekute wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:01 pmfor info only - here's the top mounts I pulled out of mine

Now that’s some interesting engineering. Someone went to a lot of trouble to thread those L-brackets.

Cheers,
Harv

It is a lot easier to fit the top mount on a Ute as you can see on Wals pics this is also how I did my top mount, I also mounted my reels the same as Wal but the reels that I had from a Commodore were for straight up and down operation and would not release so I went to Seat Belt Solutions and he recommended reels that that operate just off vertical (can't remember the angle it is on the receipt somewhere if anybody is interested) so they sit just slightly off centre but because they are behind the seat it doesn't really matter and the belts work really well.
The Guy at Seat Belt Soultions is real helpful and great to deal with.
Neil

Ha,

Looks like a retired engineer attempt at the L shaped bracket !! To much thought ! (see what reaction this gets).

Greg

FireKraka wrote:It is a lot easier to fit the top mount on a Ute as you can see on Wals pics this is also how I did my top mount, I also mounted my reels the same as Wal but the reels that I had from a Commodore were for straight up and down operation and would not release so I went to Seat Belt Solutions and he recommended reels that that operate just off vertical (can't remember the angle it is on the receipt somewhere if anybody is interested) so they sit just slightly off centre but because they are behind the seat it doesn't really matter and the belts work really well.
The Guy at Seat Belt Soultions is real helpful and great to deal with.
Neil

Thanks Neil. As you say seat hides it and is up out of the way. I will have another chat to him about maybe going this way. As you say, very helpful.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

Ok continuing the discussion, I'm on to the inner mounts and planning to mount them as per photo. Innermost position will be for the lap dash buckles and outer for the centre lap. So the belts will cross over behind the seats. Underneath of course and probably slightly rearward so as to be wholly on flat floor. Informed comment invited (wtf).

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I put the belt mounts on the rear wall of Ammo's ute.

When I put lap-sash belts in my FC, I put the inner mounts on the sides of the transmission tunnel, down low. It got the anchor brackets up off the floor (helpful for rear seat passengers) and put the buckles in the right place on the front seat (because when you sit in the car, your inner hip lines up with the tunnel, more or less).

I'd then put the mounts for the lap belt on the floor, but as close as possible to the tunnel.

Rob

Thanks Rob and others. Yes considering putting them on side of tunnel. That is where they were before I filled the holes. I don't want to put the centre lap ones too close due to harvs comment earlier about authorities not liking that.

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One thing to be mindful of is who (if anyone) is going to certify the belts. If there is no certification, no drama.

If either the registration authority or engineer want it certified, they may push you to compliance with NCOP, ADR4 or 5, or the state-based guidance. For NSW this is VSI06, for Victoria it is VSI21 and VSI8. Apologies... I haven't got around to digging out the SA-specific guidance yet, though it is likely to point back to NCOP/ADR.

Anyhoo, the NCOP/ADR guidance indicates that your bolts must be at least 200mm apart on the floorpan, and that the distance across your hips must be no less than 165mm (yes, this is smaller than 200mm, as it allows you to cross over belts... but not to share bolts).

Food for thought.

Cheers,
Harv

Thanks Harv,
The 200mm separation in the floor pan is the figure I was looking for. It is a just in case scenario, and wanting them to be effective of course. No certification planned. Red motor up to 186 in SA still doesn’t require engineering fortunately, just inspection and hopefully in my case just identity check.

The measurement > 165mm across hips has me baffled. That is a slim pair of hips.
Cheers
Clay


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

Errol62 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:00 amThe measurement > 165mm across hips has me baffled. That is a slim pair of hips.

They note that it is 165mm minimum, 250-350mm recommended. The belt ends up "wrapped" around you, bit like a single tether.

Because the straps get more east-west as the distance moves down to 165mm, the load in them increases. Could be a belt webbing loading issue, though from what I have seen there seems to be a pretty good design margin on the belt webbing (remember them hanging cars from belts back in the late 60's?).

Cheers,
Harv

Harv,

There was a 1966 GM-H publicity photo of a Viva suspended below an HR, which in turn was held up by its front seat belts to a girder, lifted by a crane. Apparently all went well, except that when lifting the crane was dynamically underdamped, causing vertical oscillation, and the HR's seatbelts broke.

A second photo, not for public release, showed a somewhat flattened Viva with an HR sitting on top of it.

(The cynic in me suggests that the HR may not have had its engine and transmission fitted, because there's no way an HR's centre of gravity is at the plane of the B-pillars.)

Rob

That's the photo I am thinking of... though I never knew there was a second (slightly less graceful) version

Cheers,
Harv

Hi Harv, this seat belt loading stuff has me a bit perplexed. In relation to the frankenstein nut, has anyone ever seen this nut fail- ie be pulled through the pillar? I thought this was the method used by holden and others for quite a few models but might be wrong. I have always assumed that the idea of seat belts was to keep the belted body tight so that when there was a collision, the person's inertia is reduced to the same as the car, minimising the force associated with an accelerating mass (loose body). As well, given the belt is pulling on the pillar forward in a collision isn't the force on the bolt actually pulling forward perpendicular to the pillar and not pulling outwards. Essentially twisting the pillar rather than trying to pull the bolt through?

Bretto27
A very good point ( do you want to Engineer my car )