Harv's meth monster project

[FireKraka]

That is very nice Harv looks extremely well done.
Neil

[Harv]

It’s very neat, great instructions, everything labelled, all parts nicely cleaned. The test will be how it fits up, but so far I’m really impressed.

Cheers,
Harv

[Brett027]

Yes, I will be getting one of those columns too. Looks perfect. Thanks for posting Harv.

[Harv]

So the brake upgrade is currently on hold, as I wait for the EJ-HD steering arms to arrive. Started to make me think a bit harder though about the next steps if the EJ-HD arms don't work. I'm keen to make discs work on a kingpin front end. The easy answer is "put in a HR front end". Good solution back in the 80's when they were plentiful and cheap... not so elegant a solution now. The aftermarket front ends are also out of my league for this project.

I wondered what other steering arms would work. Steering arms are a black art... so many combinations when you think about stubs, tie-rods etc. If you ever want an argument, ask about HZ power steering arms . From what I can work out (and please correct me if I'm wrong):
• FX-FJ had the same steering arms: 7400187 (LH) and 740186 (RH). No idea what the distance is between the bolt centres on these arms, nor if they are compatible with FBEK tie-rod ends (?)
• FE-EK all have the same steering arms: 7400875 (LH) and 7400876 (RH). These are about 3.25" between bolt centres (rough).
• EJ-HD kingpin steering arms were different: 7429157 (LH) and 7429158 (RH). These have the same 3.25" between bolt centres, and same dimensions from the stub axle to the tie-rod (2.34-2.46"). These will bolt up to FE-EK Holdens. When they arrive, I'll post some dimensions to compare them to the FE-EK arms.
• HD-HR balljoint vehicles got new steering arms: 7423653 (LH) and 7423654 (RH). These are very different between the bolt centres - roughly 3.75", and will not bolt up to the earlier kingpin stubs (I'm making this call based on rough measurements from under the wagon... correct me if I'm wrong). This means too that all the later, wonderful steering arms (like Torana) will not bolt up to an FB/EK.
• There are some aftermarket arms available (e.g. CRS rebent HR arms for their front-mount racks, and Harrop arms for the Torana to improve toe-in) but no-one makes alternative arms for the early kingpin front ends.

Cheers,
Harv

[Errol62]

Ok long shot here. Don’t suppose you could swap arms side to side with longer bolts and spacers Harv.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

[Harv]

I don’t think so. The FE-EK steering arms are not flat - they bend inwards (towards the car centreline) by about 2.5”. If you swap them side-to-side, the bent bit then moves outboard. The tie-rod ends would need to adjust out 5” both sides - don’t think they have that much adjustment. You could then flip the steering arm (to get the bend inboard again), but the taper for the toe-rod end would be u’side down Miss Jane.

Cheers,
Harv

[ardiesse]

Harv,

Humpy steering arms more resemble the ball-joint steering arms, as they don't have the boss for the brake shoe anchor bolt. But in the Humpies, the king pin bushes are in the upright, and the king pin retaining cotter pin is in the stub axle. So you can't use Humpy steering arms on FE-HD stub axles.

But - if you cut the bump stop off a Humpy upright, you could (in theory) use Humpy uprights, steering knuckles and steering arms in an FB front suspension (if the FB camber/caster eccentric is the same diameter as the early one). Except that your hubs would need to be custom machined to take FJ wheel bearings. And the Humpy upright is not as strong as the later models'.

Rob

[Errol62]

Your ready for discs.png must be a generic drawing as it appears to show the arms bending outwards, thus fouling the discs. Short of engineer certified custom forged arms you would need space them in by 0.8". What about different offset disc-hub combo to bring the disc out clear of the arm?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[Harv]

The EJ-HD arms arrived today. They are definitely a different forging to the FB/EK... not just a "hole delete".

The steering arms were changed in the EJ Holdens due to a change in brake design. The FB/EK brakes are semi-Huck (also known as leading/trailing), which use a pivot point at the bottom of the brake shoe assembly. This pivot point is provided by a bolt, which passes through the bottom of the FB/EK steering arm and brake backing plate. The EJ Holden saw a design change to Bendix brakes (also known as dual-servo). Dual servo brakes do not require the lower pivot point, and hence the EJ-HD Holden steering arms (and brake backing plates) were modified to remove it. The EJ-HD forging is thus a lot less bulky, and less protruding than the FB/EK.

FB versus later arms.png (123.61 KiB) Viewed 664 times

There is 0.42" extra clearance for my disks. I haven't fitted it up yet, but feels like less than the 0.8" that I think I need. Perhaps with 0.42" less arm, and the arm spaced inwards another 0.38" it will work... provided the arm does not hit the lower edge of the control arm.

More fit and fiddle to follow.

Cheers,
Harv

[FJWALLY]

Ive seen a few HR front ends pop up recently Harv so they are still out there and were not that expensive - one last week was only 800 and had been fully rebuilt so would only have to change the front outrigger.
If your still interested in one I could keep an eye out - whats your budget?

So the brake upgrade is currently on hold, as I wait for the EJ-HD steering arms to arrive. Started to make me think a bit harder though about the next steps if the EJ-HD arms don't work. I'm keen to make discs work on a kingpin front end. The easy answer is "put in a HR front end". Good solution back in the 80's when they were plentiful and cheap... not so elegant a solution now. The aftermarket front ends are also out of my league for this project.

I wondered what other steering arms would work. Steering arms are a black art... so many combinations when you think about stubs, tie-rods etc. If you ever want an argument, ask about HZ power steering arms . From what I can work out (and please correct me if I'm wrong):
• FX-FJ had the same steering arms: 7400187 (LH) and 740186 (RH). No idea what the distance is between the bolt centres on these arms, nor if they are compatible with FBEK tie-rod ends (?)
• FE-EK all have the same steering arms: 7400875 (LH) and 7400876 (RH). These are about 3.25" between bolt centres (rough).
• EJ-HD kingpin steering arms were different: 7429157 (LH) and 7429158 (RH). These have the same 3.25" between bolt centres, and same dimensions from the stub axle to the tie-rod (2.34-2.46"). These will bolt up to FE-EK Holdens. When they arrive, I'll post some dimensions to compare them to the FE-EK arms.
• HD-HR balljoint vehicles got new steering arms: 7423653 (LH) and 7423654 (RH). These are very different between the bolt centres - roughly 3.75", and will not bolt up to the earlier kingpin stubs (I'm making this call based on rough measurements from under the wagon... correct me if I'm wrong). This means too that all the later, wonderful steering arms (like Torana) will not bolt up to an FB/EK.
• There are some aftermarket arms available (e.g. CRS rebent HR arms for their front-mount racks, and Harrop arms for the Torana to improve toe-in) but no-one makes alternative arms for the early kingpin front ends.

Cheers,
Harv

[Harv]

To quote Cadet Mahoney, after parking the Screaming Chicken TransAm:

“It fits. The damn thing fits. I thought there was no more space. Am I an idiot or what?”

4C4F7E10-285A-4FA2-BA02-0370A248E4CD.jpeg (79.03 KiB) Viewed 652 times

887BD435-ADB0-4F64-BB0B-DF3F25028664.jpeg (85.49 KiB) Viewed 652 times

Cheers,
Harv

[Harv]

Ive seen a few HR front ends pop up recently Harv so they are still out there and were not that expensive - one last week was only 800 and had been fully rebuilt so would only have to change the front outrigger.
If your still interested in one I could keep an eye out - whats your budget?

Thanks mate, but very keen to keep the kingpins. There must be a way to do this, even if I have to go to other discs. Looking good though after today’s shenanigans.

Cheers,
Harv

[Errol62]

Unreal mate. Still plenty to learn on these old girls. Those front runners look poifect.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[Blacky]

Awesome Harv - following this with great interest

[Harv]

Unreal mate. Still plenty to learn on these old girls. Those front runners look poifect.

Really happy - the 13x7 Sampson Magnums fit the front and rear. The 205/60/13 tyres are as phat as NCOP allows. Happy days.

I made an error above. The rotors are 266mm ventilated, not 226mm. Bigger than HR (253mm solids), very close to HK/T/G (269mm solids) and not far from HQ (276mm ventilated). Whopper-stoppers.

Cheers,
Harv