suddenly she's a noisy ol' bugger

Oldnblue · Post by **Oldnblue** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:41 pm

Hi guys
I realise this next issue I'm having is far too vague to get an answer from an online forum and will be endeavouring to hook up with folk at some stage for a better evaluation of the issue, but...in the meantime maybe some of you guys will be able to recognise possibilities and offer some ideas.

I have just had the car back from my mechanic after fixing fuel system problems myself and having him replace dodgy points - the car is now running fine. Actually, let me clarify...it's running fine, but has all of a sudden become twice as noisy as it's ever been.

Let me describe...at idle, she runs as quietly as always, bar the ever present ticking of the grey. However, as soon as the revs are brought up (standing still, or moving) a very loud rattling noise becomes evident, like nothing I've ever heard from this engine. Driving home yesterday, at highway speed, the rattling was joined by occasional, intermittent sharp 'klakking' noises. These noises were random and in no way affected the performance of the engine/car. She still ran smoothly, accelerated fine and showed no signs of poorer performance. Just noisy.

I got off the highway and into lower speed driving conditions, and the 'klakking' stopped, leaving and only the now annoying as hell loud rattling noise.

I took the car back to my mechanic this morning and he had a good check over of everything, adjusted tappets etc, but couldn't find anything wrong (other than the fact that she's all of a sudden incredibly noisy under any load). He then sent me to his engine builder nearby who also had a good look and listen and came back with the same diagnosis...nothing that seems wrong...just noisy. He noted that it sounds not too different to your average old engine and unless I'm willing to pull it apart for proper analysis (which he didn't recommend), that I should just keep driving it and see if it develops into anything, and fix it if/then.

So now I'm in a position where I know without doubt that the engine has literally overnight become incredibly noisy/rattly where it used to be so quiet that people would comment on it. 2 mechanics have looked and can't find anything obviously wrong. My concern is that's it's something internally that will damage the engine if I just leave it to continue, but am not necessarily in a position where I can disassemble an engine to find something that nobody can even identify.

So I suppose I'm wondering what can make an engine go from very very quiet to rattly as all hell overnight?? The recent work on her only concerned the fuel lines/filter/pump, and the dizzy/points. Nothing else was changed. it's annoying as hell because I can hear the drastic change in the engine, but nobody who has heard it seems to hear anything that is a problem.

Any thoughts or suggestions?? I'm going to get out there with a length of hose in the morning and see if I can narrow down where exactly the new noise is coming from.

I don't expect any real solutions but would still be good to hear what you guys think.
Cheers, Scott

thropzed · Post by **thropzed** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:12 pm

Flange gasket?
Cheers Theo Z..................

Devilrod · Post by **Devilrod** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:39 pm

Long shot but check the harmonic balancer/pulley on the crank. Mine loosened itself at one stage and was intermittently noisey, nothing five minutes work with the hammer couldn't fix. Once it was off.

Trev · Post by **Trev** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:48 pm

It could be the exhaust heat valve just under the carby, might have come lose or come apart inside

, Trev

.

hawk · Post by **hawk** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:10 pm

Disconnect Fan belt and see if the noise goes away,this will eliminate water pump,generator,harmonic balancer .
Regards Greg.

Oldnblue · Post by **Oldnblue** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:47 pm

Man, you guys are quick!
Perfect start. I'll disconnect the fan belt to narrow down the possibility of it being water pump, generator etc. If it's still happening I'll keep looking and listening and will doublecheck the other areas mentioned so far.
Didn't get much chance to do anything this evening as the whole place is still blanketed in dust. As it was, the car gained a coat of red muck driving back from the mechanics. Kinda eerie atmosphere really...

Cheers, Scott

robbyr · Post by **robbyr** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:49 pm

it sounds to me a bit like timing or your timing advance is not working properly, and causing deternation or pinging ( makes a sounds like chain ratterling inside engine.) it maybe worth checking. good luck.

Oldnblue · Post by **Oldnblue** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:02 pm

That's a pretty good description of what it sounds like...a chain rattling inside the engine.
Thing that's weird about the whole thing is I would have assumed at least one of the 2 mechanics who listened to it today would have recognised such a sound.
If I get nowhere tomorrow morning I'm really going to have to endeavour to get someone to listen to it that knows the particular ins and outs of EK/FB/greys back to front. To me it's really obvious that something's not right.
It's funny (and damn frustrating) that I can have not an ounce of trouble with the old girl for 2 years and then in the space of a few weeks, one thing after another.

I'll keep the timing in mind when I get out there in the morning.
Cheers, Scott

Devilrod · Post by **Devilrod** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:10 pm

robbyr wrote:it sounds to me a bit like timing or your timing advance is not working properly, and causing deternation or pinging ( makes a sounds like chain ratterling inside engine.) it maybe worth checking. good luck.

Ooooh good one didn't think of that!

Whatever you do do one thing at a time. Don't change a whole heap of things at once. You'll never know exactly what it was.

Oldnblue · Post by **Oldnblue** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:03 am

Devilrod, I hear ya.
Anything I do will be checked/changed in isolation so I can properly establish what the results are.
First step in the morning will be to simply remove the fan belt to hear if the noise stops or continues.
Second will be to check the timing at dizzy.
If no change there, I'll move on. Hopefully that'll be as far as I need to go.

I've never had a problem of pinging before and was unsure exactly what to listen out for, but the description robbyr used was pretty much exactly what I'm hearing. Wouldn't be too big a surprise either, considering that my mechanic had the dizzy out of the car to replace the points, and said himself that he only took the car for a short drive around the block when he'd finished in order to check all was ok. He hadn't placed the car under any load.

Will update once I've done a few simple tests.
Cheers, Scott

Cal · Post by **Cal** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:28 am

I'm not too sure about the timing being the problem. It apparently happens when the car is stationary and the revs are brought up. There is no load there, so I doubt it will ping.

I had a similar issue a month or so back, and it was a simple exhaust leak, where the pipe meets the flange under the manifold

Oldnblue · Post by **Oldnblue** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:40 am

Cal
I was under the impression that pinging can still occur when the engine is at higher revs when standing. Is that not correct? The noise definitely starts as the revs come up with the car standing still...up to about 1000rpm (by ear only) she sounds pretty much as normal but after that the 'rattling' starts.

I checked timing advance/retard just now but can't turn the dissy anti-clockwise as the steel vacuum pipe is resting hard against the block. I assume that isn't the best position for it considering some movement would be desirable at times.

A side point if it makes any difference...when I have my head under the bonnet, the noise sounds heavier/thicker and harder to differentiate than from inside the cabin where the higher pitched rattle of the sound becomes more evident/clear. It's the same noise, just easier to seperate from the normal noise of the engines operation when I don't have my head stuck right next to everything else turning over. Not sure if that makes any difference to ideas.
Cheers, Scott

Oldnblue · Post by **Oldnblue** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:30 am

Oh yeah, pulled the fan belt off and sounds the same, so not related there.

Cal · Post by **Cal** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:10 am

Scott, it does sound very similar to the issue I had. Whilst the engine is running (and be careful as it will be hot), put your hand near the flange on the exhaust manifold. If it's leaking as bad as mine was, you will feel a fair bit of hot air. Don't mistake this with the air coming off the fan though .

You can still get pinging from the engine when the car is standing, though I'd assume it will be a lot worse when the engine is actually under load. If the sound is the same intensity both in standing and driving, I doubt it's timing.

Another thing to check is the oil. With all this mucking about about with fuel pumps and stuff, you could've had a bit of fuel get into the sump, thus making the oil a lot thinner. This will then tend to make the engine a bit noisier

Though I could be wrong

thropzed · Post by **thropzed** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:31 am

Like I said Scott, Flange Gasket. Cut a length of garden hose, Stick one end up to your ear and use the other end to run around all gaskets-inlet/outlet manifolds, Plus flange gasket and if your running stock manifolds run the hose around the warmer valve in the bottom of inlet manifold.
Cheer Theo Z..................
PS. I can come and have a squizz if ya want!