Harv's FED thread

Got something else that you want to show off that's not an FB or EK? Try this section.

Moderators: reidy, Blacky

User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5409
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Harv's FED thread

Post by Harv »

HSD - rocker cover.jpg
HSD - rocker cover.jpg (2.47 MiB) Viewed 582 times
HSD - roller rockers 1.jpg
HSD - roller rockers 1.jpg (2.55 MiB) Viewed 582 times
HSD - retainers.jpg
HSD - retainers.jpg (2.34 MiB) Viewed 582 times
HSD - head 4.jpg
HSD - head 4.jpg (2.3 MiB) Viewed 582 times
HSD - head 3.jpg
HSD - head 3.jpg (2.08 MiB) Viewed 582 times
HSD - head 2.jpg
HSD - head 2.jpg (2.46 MiB) Viewed 582 times
HSD - head 1.jpg
HSD - head 1.jpg (2.15 MiB) Viewed 582 times
HSD - fasteners.jpg
HSD - fasteners.jpg (2.28 MiB) Viewed 582 times
one more post to follow.
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5409
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Harv's FED thread

Post by Harv »

HSD - valves.jpg
HSD - valves.jpg (1.24 MiB) Viewed 581 times
HSD - springs and collets.jpg
HSD - springs and collets.jpg (1.99 MiB) Viewed 581 times
HSD - roller rockers 2.jpg
HSD - roller rockers 2.jpg (2.41 MiB) Viewed 581 times
More photos tomorrow of the short assembly.

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5409
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Harv's FED thread

Post by Harv »

Got the short motor onto a stand. Next step is a coat of battleship grey, then some assembly. Of course, rain delays play. Apologies for the crappy photos... it is getting congested in that shed, and trying to keep the rain from blowing in the rollerdoor didn't help.

short motor deck.jpg
short motor deck.jpg (1.11 MiB) Viewed 558 times
short motor partial crank (photo shot upside down).jpg
short motor partial crank (photo shot upside down).jpg (527.82 KiB) Viewed 558 times
short motor rest of crank.jpg
short motor rest of crank.jpg (555.52 KiB) Viewed 558 times

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5409
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Harv's FED thread

Post by Harv »

Got the short motor onto a stand. Next step is a coat of battleship grey, then some assembly. Of course, rain delays play. Apologies for the crappy photos... it is getting congested in that shed, and trying to keep the rain from blowing in the rollerdoor didn't help.

short motor deck.jpg
short motor deck.jpg (1.11 MiB) Viewed 558 times
short motor partial crank (photo shot upside down).jpg
short motor partial crank (photo shot upside down).jpg (527.82 KiB) Viewed 558 times
short motor rest of crank.jpg
short motor rest of crank.jpg (555.52 KiB) Viewed 558 times
Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
In the Shed
Posts: 2073
Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 10:18 pm
State: SA
Location: South Australia

Re: Harv's FED thread

Post by In the Shed »

Looks the goods 👍

PS: don’t expect any updates from Harv for next couple days, think he might be lost in the shed playing with his Christmas presents! :lol:
A day in the shed beats a day at work!
EK283
Posts: 2460
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:51 pm
State: NSW
Location: SYDNEY NSW

Re: Harv's FED thread

Post by EK283 »

Hi Harv,

Thats looking real tuff.

Ive been painting engines lately with brush on epoxy enamel, I first do the scrub and wash then with a gas torch heat the block till you can see the oil dry out of the cast then paint on the enamel.
It sticks extremely well and because its enamel it cleans easy as well.
There is a machine grey thats close to clinka grey. Good luck.

Greg
So many cars so little time!
Blacky
Posts: 13147
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:58 am
State: WA
Location: up in the Perth hills

Re: Harv's FED thread

Post by Blacky »

Sexy 😎😎😎
I started with nothing and still have most of it left.


Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
BS
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:31 pm
State: NOT ENTERED
Location: Brisbane

Re: Harv's FED thread

Post by BS »

Wowzers!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5409
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Harv's FED thread

Post by Harv »

Not much play time over the weekend. Rain, but clearing today so hopefully paint the block tomorrow. Need to get Number One Son's VL off to get the turbo piping done, and I'm on the road for work later in the week.

Got the balancer (ATI 916970) and hub dummy assembled to finger tight. The balancer needs to be SFI-rated to meet the IHRA requirements, and this one is (the Ross balancers are too, the Powerbond factory replacement ones are not). I won't need the v-belt groove in the hub, but it's not hurting anything for now.

The ATI balancer is fancy, and made me go back and download the instructions for reading. One bolt of the nine is offset, so the hub and balancer only go together one way. Fasteners get torqued to 120ftlb, and use Torx-plus fasteners. Glad I read the instructions for once, as it has a warning very similar to "These are Torx-plus fasteners. Do not use a Torx bit ya idjit. They will drive in OK to 120ftlb, but you will round the fastener heads off and they will NEVER come out again". Put the Torx bit back in the shed and ordered a Torx-plus bit. Dummied up the blower gilmer pulley and ordered some ARP bolts to mount them. The pulley is an old, abused, multidrilled piece that is OK for mock-up but methinks I best replace before driving the Norman in anger.

harmonic balancer 2.jpg
harmonic balancer 2.jpg (1.03 MiB) Viewed 482 times
harmonic balancer 1.jpg
harmonic balancer 1.jpg (1.27 MiB) Viewed 482 times

Will post some of the Repco head stuff over on that thread.

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
User avatar
Errol62
Posts: 10653
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:44 pm
State: SA
Location: Adelaide

Re: Harv's FED thread

Post by Errol62 »

A very merry Christmas Harv! Looking good.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5409
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Harv's FED thread

Post by Harv »

Time to think a little bit about blower pulleys. Whilst vee-belts are traditional fare for road-going Normans, the dragster versions often got treated to gilmer belts. Part of me likes the idea of vee-belt tradition, but the other part of me says that there are a lot more choices of gilmer pulleys. This thing will likely have a few changes of pulley ratio before I get it right, so a gilmer belt is the right choice.

Two options make sense for the gilmer belts. I could go the traditional ½” pitch trapezoidal belt, or the more modern 8mm round belt. There are a lot more choices in the 8mm pulleys available, the pulleys are available locally-made, and belts are easier to find… so an 8mm belt is the right choice.

There are a couple of overseas companies that make the 8mm pullies, with a lot of local shops (eg Rocket Industries) stocking Blower Drive Service (BDS) pullies. There is also a local made option through Diecrest engineering, at about 25% cheaper. I can’t see any warning signs about the Diecrest products, so will give them a go.

Diecrest make the gilmer pulleys in 43 to 74 teeth options, and can drill to suit. This gives the following ratio options:

Diecrest 8mm pulley ratios.jpg
Diecrest 8mm pulley ratios.jpg (931.78 KiB) Viewed 251 times

The green area is overdriven, whilst the orange side is underdriven. Most Norman superchargers are run at 1:1 ratio, or 10% overdriven. This is where I need to be a little careful though. Your average Norman sits on a grey motor with a moderate redline (say 4800rpm). At 10% overdriven, the supercharger sees up to about 5300rpm, which is close to the sensible limit for a sliding vane supercharger. Spin them any faster, and they make a lot of heat, and not much more pressure. The FED will start out each race sitting just below the torque convertor stall speed (5000rpm). As it passes the traps, it will see up to 7600rpm. A 1:1 pulley ratio would be OK (just) at the start line, with the supercharger seeing 5000rpm. At the finish line, the poor thing would be whizzing out to 7600rpm. A little too fast, so I suspect this thing will need to be underdriven.

Back in the first few pages of my Norman supercharger thread I showed how to estimate the power output for various supercharger specs. I ran these calcs again for the FED, with the following changes:
a) I increased the supercharger capacity from the small Type 45 one in the example (83ci/rev) to the Type 110 that I will use on the FED (145ci/rev).
b) I’ve increased the “factory” power output from 75BHP to 138BHP to account for the Repco head (using the Repco power curves as a guide).
c) I have assumed that the Repco head grey motor engine volumetric efficiency (VE) is 85%, rather than the 80% I assumed for the standard asthmatic grey motor head.
d) I have assumed that the Norman supercharger volumetric efficiency drops from 90% to 87% as the pressure increases above 10psi.
e) I have assumed that the Norman supercharger drive power efficiency reduces from 90% to 86% as the pressure increases above 10 psi.
f) I have assumed that the ambient air temperature will come down by 5ºC to 35ºC to account for the methanol vapourisation (a 40ºF drop is typical for top alcohol cars).

Running the numbers through says that to make the 220HP I need (for a 10.99s quarter mile in a 1300lb car) then the blower will need to be at 22psi and will run 168ºC outlet temperatures. This is probably not achievable with a Norman, as the blower would need to run at 8800rpm…. lots of churn, lots of heat, stuff-all power. Normans can run at higher boost (the Type 110 I am using was running 30psi on a Toyota), but heat is the issue. Depending on how well I can get the discharge temperature down, then I need less and less boost to make the 220HP. I can get discharge temperature down by:

a) running as rich as all hell – methanol does not drop off power if you run very rich… it just gets harder and harder for the plugs to ignite.
b) injecting water into the outlet (… just as easy to run the methanol fat).
c) Keeping the inlet manifold chilled with ice before each run.

The numbers look like this:

FED engine outelt temperature.jpg
FED engine outelt temperature.jpg (42.99 KiB) Viewed 251 times

So where to start? Methinks underdriven as a starting point, at around 0.886:1 pulley ratio (11.4% underdriven). This is still whizzing the supercharger at 6700rpm, and assumes I can magically get down to 50ºC outlet. Will need to play from there – try a higher ratio to overcome the outlet heat, or a lower ratio to make less heat in the first place.

I’ll try a 53 tooth pulley on the crank, and 59 tooth on the supercharger as the starting point (10% underdriven).

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Post Reply