FB Standard Wagon

[Errol62]

Heard some sweet music around at Drews this arvo. The wagon is looking rock solid. Time for an update Drew.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

[EK DAZ]

Yeah, Come on Drew. Looking forward to seeing what progress you have made.

[FbSTDwagon]

Yeah apologies guys, seems even finding the time to do regular posts these days is hard to find.

I have been doing YouTube on the motor build which can be found in the search of ‘Holden Grey Motor’

So yes the motor is in and running, all be it the tuning is yet to be finalised.

Just messing around with some vacuum connections today and sorting some fuel line leaks out.

[FbSTDwagon]

I’ll jam the you tube links in below incase anyone hasn’t seen them.

It’s definitely too hard to give a major motor recap now on the forum but the videos show what I’m up to

Ep5
https://youtu.be/hsQ5NZL6H40

Ep6
https://youtu.be/CiIzf8LW4I4

Ep7
https://youtu.be/sytzqUu6XOo

Ep8
https://youtu.be/8TcWv8uePyc

Ep 9
https://youtu.be/GOMyrci7pM8

[FbSTDwagon]

Ep10
https://youtu.be/jBEB-KNUNN0

Ep11
https://youtu.be/cetf2DD1UjM

Ep12
https://youtu.be/qy_iXEQIXZY

Ep13
https://youtu.be/mD9rXUbgK4A

Ep14
https://youtu.be/HKrHWOco2Fw

Ep15
https://youtu.be/Kt_XfV8hM1k

Ep16
https://youtu.be/TE4MSveWHaA

Ep17 -Start up
https://youtu.be/Qs1AJjNiz00

[FbSTDwagon]

Seems I’ve been taking all videos and no photos, I’ll get some snap shots of the current situation and post them up…

But until then…

[Blacky]

That cat does not look happy with your antics

[Errol62]

The only time I've seen a happy cat is when it has budgie feathers sticking out of its mouth.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

[FbSTDwagon]

Yeah the cat seems to like walking over the car and annoying my while I’m working!

A couple photos of the wagon and engine

[FbSTDwagon]

But something that has been on my mind since having the motor running is oil VOLUME… I think I may have stuffed up with my pipe size and I’m starving the motor of oil.

Oil PRESSURE is fine at 30+ psi but I had the rocker cover off when Is was running and it surprisingly dry on that top end.

I have the oil junction on the rockers blocked off with a self tapper screw.

I disconnected the rocker oil fed pipe and at idle there is literally zero to very little oil flow up the top, with oil flow only really pushing out when the motor is revved.

I outline below what I have found from my investigation

[FbSTDwagon]

A oil gallery and fitting flow sizes on the grey motor I can share in hindsight… (ID - inside diameter) and apologies but I’m working in Mm

Grey motor sizes

Main oil gallery - 11mm ID

Brass Elbow on oil pump - 8.5mm ID
Steel oil pipe - 9mm ID
Oil pipe length approx 400mm

Fitting I have used in the sump…

Elbow on oil pump - 7.3 ID
Steel oil pipe - 9.5mm ID
Oil pipe length approx 550mm
Elbow out of block - 7.3 ID

[FbSTDwagon]

Next is my external fittings which seem under size

Elbows x 4 - 7.3mm ID
Hose 13/32 - 10mm ID
Hose fittings - 6.75 ID

So considering that the main oil gallery is 11mm and the smallest factory restriction is 8.5 mm in only 1 place I think it’s fair to say I have grossly underestimated the size hose I have needed to ensure good oil volume flow.

Also I have a total of 10 fittings that have a smaller diameter than the single factory elbow on the pump.

So it looks like back to step one and the motor is getting pulled back out.
Sump will come off and I’ll start the pipe work for the full flow filter again.

I can’t believe I didn’t spot it earlier.

[Harv]

The grey motor oil pump is a positive displacement (gear) pump. It will deliver as much pressure as it needs to in order to squeeze out the same volume of oil... until the relief valve lifts. If your piping is too small, it will lift the relief valve once it hits 40psi.

The thing that has not changed is the system downstream of the main gallery. Provided you feed the same pressure into the main gallery, it will flow the same amount of oil to the engine, regardless of what is feeding it.

The trick is to measure oil pressure at the point where you are feeding back into the main gallery. You're aiming for 29psi hot @1200rpm. If that is healthy, then all is good and the piping size upstream is irrelevant. If you can't get that pressure at that speed, then the piping may be restrictive.

The block fitting (where the pressure sender normally is) is the limitation. They are made to tap pressure, but are not a huge size to allow flow. From memory the block is tapped 3/8NPT (could be 1/2NPT) and there is not much room to open that up to a bigger size. My drysump setup has the same issue: -10line reduced to 3/8NPT at the block.

Cheers,
Harv

[FbSTDwagon]

Harv thanks for taking the time to reply.

Well mate I do not understand pumps and hydraulics like you do and I must say I’m pleasantly relieved with what you had to say.

So in theory that pipe work is ok if it pulls 29psi at 1200rpm hot…

I will reconnect the hoses and do a test to confirm those exact specs.

I will also double check the oil flow to the rockers at rev and at idle and take some photos to get a confirmation that the oil up top is ok.
It’s literally a weak dribble from the top hole on the rockers.
It is obvious the rocker tube is filling up though.

I also stretched to oil pump relief valve spring out a bit when rebuilding the pump, so it definitely should be 40+ psi before blowing off.

And if this is all good it means you saved me a heap of time and money, so I’ll jump on the machines and make that overdue tooling I promised you!

[Harv]

All good.

The reason the downstream piping doesn't matter so much is because the pump is positive displacement (a gear pump). If the pump was a centrifugal pump (like the grey motor water pump) then the piping choice makes a big difference.

Same kind of deal with superchargers. A Norman or Rootes blower are positive displacement. Turbos, Paxtons and Vortechs are centrifugal.

Cheers,
Harv