help with engine transplant please.

[farkamhall]

here is the story, FB was a manual column shift. everything taken out from engine bay. HR front end was fitted some time ago. we tried a trial engine and gearbox fit with 186 red and trimatic box. the engine mounts match up perfectly and there is about an inch from back of engine to the firewall. the problems are these.

the sump on the red motor is hitting the front steering rod that goes across the car.

the gearbox is longer of course with nowhere to attach it to the underbody.
we are going to have to cut the front floor tunnel to get it to fit in properly and remodel the hump for the floor shift.

how do we get around the sump\sterring prob and how do we anchor the gearbox underbody.
any help appreciated.thanks

[rosco]

Hi FKA,
quite a few things to be done............
Basic outline

In some states, an engineer's certificate will be required for the modification of floor and larger engine - check with your registration department.
In some states, the engineer will require a chassis rail kit to be fitted - this will provide the rear trans mount.

You will have to cut the floor and fit a larger transmission hump - CRS in Victoria fabricate these.

I am of the opinion your engine will already have an EH sump - I don't think the later ones will fit between the cross-member and the steering drag link.

Once you have the floor cut the transmission should now permit the engine to be raised sufficiently to clear the drag link.

You will be looking for a shortened tailshaft - I used an LJ Torana auto for mine.....

You will probably have to get a speedo cable made up.

You will have quite a few more minor issues to overcome -

my suggestion is to first get in touch with your rego people and follow their requirements

you will always find "help" here - don't be afraid to ask - it's all been done before.....

frats,
Rosco

[farkamhall]

thanks guys,rosco, what makes you think it already has an eh sump? even with the gearbox in properly, i think it will still be hitting the steering rod (drag link) as the dip in the sump seems to be right over it.

[FB MAD]

If its got an EH sump it won't hit the steering drag link as the EH sump design is near identical to the original grey motor one( unless of coarse you have the motor sitting too low then any sump may hit the drag link I suppose ).

Without a photo I'd guess you haven't got an EH sump and that is where the problem may be.

I have a feeling that LC/LJ sumps may also fit as the sump bowl in them is right at the rear of the sump and should clear the drag link.

So EH sump will solve the problem, LC/LJ sump may also possibly work as well but not 100% sure on that one.

Can't really help at present with trimatic conversion as I've never done it however that said, I've got a feeling this conversion was discussed ( trimatic to grey motor ) a fair while back on either this forum or the FE/FC forum so give me a while and I'll see it I can go back and search for it.

Or have a search yourself, in the searchbar type in some keywords and something usefull may come up.

Hope that helps,

Terry.

P.S. I just typed in "trimatic conversion" in the search bar and some usefull info came up but you'll have to sort through all the posts to find it.

I saw Devilrod has done this conversion running a 161 so DR might be the man for advice on the Traumatic/Red motor conversion.

[farkamhall]

thanks terry, was looking at some posts on the subject and they advise putting in a HR draglink together with the EH sump and oilpickup. i think the HR draglink has a dip in it where our present one is completely straight.

[Devilrod]

Ileft all the EK drag link and tierods on and only put the EH sump and pickup on. As for rear crossmember we made one to suit.

[farkamhall]

thanks devilrod, can you tell me how much of the original hump has to be cut back and how far back, also, where did you put the support on the box.thanks

[Devilrod]

To work out how much, realisticaly get a new tunnel first. I can't recommend the CRS one enough and by the looks of it it is popular. The bonus being standard EK Auto Carpet can be used...

Not the best but gives you an idea.




With Carpet


I have to fix my old computer and salvage the pics off of it as it shows the build a bit better. As for the crossmember, we made up four plates (to sandwichand bolt through the floor and spread the load, but I'll be putting in chassis rails soon and mounting it to that via a new crossmember) and smoothed all edges. Then with some rectangular box tube we cut an open u shape like this \_/. Made a plate for the gearbox mount tacked it all up, trial fitted it then finished all welding. This was an engineer approved method my mate used mounting a 5 speed in his EK originally.

[farkamhall]

thanks devilrod, any idea of the cost of the crs tunnel? thanks

[Devilrod]

Last I heard they were around $110.
I forgot to mention we also fabbed up a u piece similar to what Rosco has done to replicate the factory bracing that ends up being removed due to the bigger tunnel. Just make sure you it follows the curve of the tunnel closely.

[rosco]

Hi again FKA,
sorry, didn't get back before this but had to work today..............

Go to Tech section, you will see my pix and reply to post named "needed - bigger transmission hump"

With regards to the sump, yes FBM the "bowl" of the sump is at the very rear - I was under the impression (right or wrong) that the Torrie ones have a very small "neck" from the rear - it's only 1/2" or so.............. been a long time since I've seen one...............

With regards to the HR draglink - yes it has a "dip" as you put it, but it's the wrong way - it actually "dips" towards the EH sump bowl - on an HR/HD it dips away from the bowl, which is placed between the draglink and crossmember.........
I have used the HD/HR one for mine - there has been little advantage that I have found between the tube original and the latter - I still get minimal contact between the sump and the drag-link on full right hand lock - it does not prevent full lock, but can feel the engine through the steering wheel - I have attempted to raise both the engine and trans with little gain..... still in progress and will post answer when found........

From all I have read on this forum, and to all I have spoken with - the CRS trans hump would be your best option.......... read my post (and that of others) as to fitting it.....................

I spent a considerable amount of time welding and grinding an "arch" to replace the former under the previous trans cover - you may wish to consider what others have done - I am very comfortable with mine, but believe I wouldn't go to that trouble if I were to do it again.............

I was under the impression the sump already fitted to your engine was an EH because I still believe you will not be able to lower an engine fitted with a later sump down to sit either side of the cross-member .
Of course, you MUST fit the matched oil pick up pipe for any sump - make sure if you obtain another sump that you get the pick up to match.......
Make sure you tighten that pickup union nut firmly - don't go nuts and try to rotate the engine but you must remember, if air gets in it will prevent the oil pump from "picking up" oil .......

By what you have described, your red engine mounts on the crossmember are correctly positioned - I have a similar clearance from my firewall to the rear of the head.

hope some of this helps FKA.......

frats,
Rosco

[farkamhall]

thanks again rosco. the 186 was from an HR so i presume it has that sump. the bowl of the sump where the drain plug is, is where it is it hitting the draglink so hopefully an EH sump will fix the problem withoput having to alter the draglink.many thanks for all the pics in your other post on this subject and also to DEVILROD for taking the time and effort to post the pics, very much appreciated advice from all concerned.

[farkamhall]

sorry to be a pain guys but just want to clarify the sump question. from what engine exactly can i transplant the sump onto the red 186. i know you said EH but rosco says that EJ Grey motor sump is also used. i just want to make sure i know what to go looking for.thanks again

[Devilrod]

EH.....

[rosco]

No FKA,
EJ grey won't fit - my reference to that was purely to state that of the two similar models, the EJ had a grey motor - the only model of the two which is suitable is the EH - I was using the reference to explain how few of these sumps were produced, compared with all other models where there were two or more which were similar.............

sorry for the confusion - the GREY sump from an EJ won't fit............
You must find an EH and oil pickup....

frats,
Rosco