Harv's meth monster project

[ardiesse]

Harv,

Lubrication of the small-end bushes is one of these completely counter-intuitive things . . .

The arrangement where the small-end is pressure-fed oil by a hole running right up the guts of the conrods was implemented on the 48s from the word go and phased out . . . some time around FE, to a hole drilled in the top of the small end and lubricated by oil mist. The GM engineers didn't want the gudgeons to go rattly with age, so they over-engineered the lubrication system.

Here's the counter-intuitive thing: the small-end bushes wore out faster with the pressure-fed lubrication system. It appears that oil that's been smacked around inside the crankcase is cleaner than the pressure-fed oil from the sump.

Most people now who rebuild early greys try to scrounge a set of EJ conrods. I have a spare set of drilled FX rods at home, but I don't really recommend them for the kind of service you're envisioning. Plus, ACL doesn't make FX-FJ big-end bearings any more. No drilling for the oil passage - no oil feed to the small ends. At my last rebuild I had KCs drill the top of the small end to get oil splash lubrication, rather than painfully drill holes in my big-end bearing shells.

A dry-sumped motor will have as much oil mist inside the crankcase as a stock engine. Oil still emerges from the bearings at the same rate in a dry-sumped engine and will get thrown all around inside the crankcase just as before. Your small-ends will not run dry, I reckon.

Rob

[Harv]

Thanks Rob. I didn't realise the early little ends were pressure fed. The change is in the May 1953 Service Bulletin:

H46G3 Bulletin.png (215.89 KiB) Viewed 748 times

It's a bit of a balance on oil mist. I intend running a windage tray, and am umming and ahhhhing about getting a crank scraper made up. You're right though, the big ends will still be piddling out oil, and the head draining down... has to be some form of mist in the crankcase despite best efforts.

Cheers,
Harv

[EK283]

Harv,

The mist in the sump will always be there like Rob said, the crank scraper and windage tray do wonders for keeping the oil on the pick ups and limit starvation, dont ask me how I know !
In the red engines we used to block the pushrods with rifle cleaners to limit top end oil and use the &*#@ lifters as well. We would also have drainbacks from the side plates and rocker covers to get the oil back into the sump. With the dry sump you can have lots of volume and if plumbed right have next to no starvation as long as the scavangers are in the right place.

Regards Greg

[Harv]

Thanks Greg. Any reccomendations for someone in Sydney who can build a windage tray and/or scraper for me? The tray in my dry sump is more than a little agricultural.

Last time I was home I dropped off three cranks to Duncan Foster to see if they were salvageable.

The first one had been in the FB when I tore the thrust bearings out of it. The machine shop in Tamworth reckoned it was not reclaimable, so stupid me threw it under the house. Turns out it was 40 thou under, and could have gone down to 60 thou... if stupid me had preserved the journals with a bit of grease.

Second crank had come out of one of the seized greys that I stripped a while back. I got smarter with this one, and coated the journals before putting it under the house with the spooders. Sadly, this one is also a no-go... cracked at #2. In retrospect, I guess I dodged a bullet as it sure would have let go with a bang with the abuse I intend putting into this thing.

Third crank is the one that I recently pulled out of the EJ motor, with the large balancing holes. This one is not cracked (yay!) and is 40 thou under, so can go out to 60 thou (yay!). This is where it got ugly. The Mitsubishi 4G63 rods I am running come in standard, 20 thou under, 30 thou and 40 thou... no 60 thou. So whilst I have a nicely machined crank (including a snout machined for the Ross balancer and balancer puller) it won't fit the fancy rods. Bugger. Looks like this one gets coated in grease (perhaps cosmolene) and stored away for when Grace breaks the ute.

Another crank is on the way this weekend, hopefully better luck third time round. It's supposed to be a virgin crank, so should machine out to 20 thou under. This will give me two rebuilds (30 and 40 thou) if disaster strikes.

Cheers,
Harv

[EK283]

Harv,

Sorry mate all the windage trays, crank scrapers I used were hand built many moons ago.

There was a guy who made the high energy sumps for chev that would do custom, I think he is in Melbourne. Google you're friend here.

I'm not sure if he's still around but Terry Sainty in Wenty used to make billet cranks, also crankshaft builders, I think in Melbourne ???

They would also make cranks custom. Could be an option as the greys were flimsy at the best of times.

Greg

[Harv]

Thanks mate. Terry is still around, though the workshop near the Cumberland Highway closed a while back. There is a mob at Guildford that does sumps, though I don’t know if anyone who has used them.

I thought about the billet crank, but the cost threw me... it’s the better part of $6,000 by the time all the machining is done. I’ll give the main girdle a try, and see how we go.

Cheers,
Harv

[Harv]

There are days when I really can't win.

After the first three cranks were not suitable (two undersized, one cracked) I was offered a crank by a gentleman who had laid it aside several years ago for his own drag car project. The crank cleaned up OK.... but failed the crack test. I must owe Duncan Foster a small fortune for testing unsuitable grey motor cranks

I've got one more crank that is (relatively) accessible, though will have to strip down a complete engine to get at it (the one I tried to steal the lifters out of last weekend).

Option B is to throw a billet crank at this thing. Might make some calls to Auscrank, though suspect I may have a coronary over the price.

Cheers,
Harv

[FireKraka]

Hi Harv
Maybe contact GaryC on the FE FC Forum I think he had a billet crank made for his FE race car don't know the full details just remember he and I talking about all the cash he had put into the motor, might be worth a try.
Regards
Neil

[Harv]

I had a good conversation with Crankshaft Rebuilders, down in Blackburn, Victoria yesterday:
https://www.crankshaftrebuilders.com.au/

Nice blokes to talk to. They make the Auscrank billet greymotor cranks. The counterweights have been redesigned, which make them rev out smoother. They normally recommend using the same Mistubishi conrods that I am using, with custom forged slugs from SPS (that's my plan too). Lead time on a crank is several months. Cost is a shade under $7,000.

I like the idea of an unkillable crank. I really do. I reckon if I was building a circuit racer that was constantly being flogged up and down past the 6,300rpm harmonic then it would be a great idea. My grey though is going to spend most of it's life in 13 second increments. I will likely be crank-speed limited in order to keep the Norman speed down (spin them much past 6,000rpm and they stop making boost and start making heat from vane/casing friction). I just can't bring myself to outlay that kind of cash on a crank.

So back to Option A. Next time I'm home I'll strip down the next seized grey (the one with the crappy lifters), reef out the crank and pray it is both oversized and not cracked. Wish me luck.

Cheers,
Harv

[FJWALLY]

Best of luck on the crank Harv - 7k is a big chunk of change.

For the norman what are you using for lube or are you just relying on fuel oil?

[Harv]

I'll run some oil in the fuel to lubricate the Norman.

I did some octane testing several years ago, as there was a myth that adding small amounts to oil dramatically dropped the fuels octane number. Turned out to be rubbish - no discernible difference in test results. Octane does not blend linearly.

Cheers,
Harv

[Errol62]

What Wally said. Scrounging bits from here and there has more cool factor in my book. Talk to Rob Shaw. Maybe he can bring back this short donk with the lifters.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

[FJWALLY]

Yeah Fred had same idea which if you run the premium fuel to start it will be a big step up on the old super they used to run on - keeping the fuel/oil in suspension may be a bit harder to do but a modern 2 stroke additive should work ok perhaps?

I'll run some oil in the fuel to lubricate the Norman.

I did some octane testing several years ago, as there was a myth that adding small amounts to oil dramatically dropped the fuels octane number. Turned out to be rubbish - no discernible difference in test results. Octane does not blend linearly.

Cheers,
Harv

[Harv]

I did the testing with 98 octane Shell V-Power, and typical engine oil (Shell Helix HX3) at 60:1 (Eldred’s recommended rate). No dramas with mixing, or with octane drop.

For the meth monster, I'm running dual fuel. 98 V-Power most of the time (with a dash of engine oil). Castor oil is probably more traditional, but engine oil is simpler to get hold of. For strip work I'll run methanol (115 octane) from a Moon-type tank. Undecided as to whether to run oil or one of the fancy meth additives.

Cheers,
Harv

[Harv]

Managed to get home again, so renewed the hunt for a virgin crank. Shuffled the dead greys around, and went to work on the next one. Stripped it down, only to find that crank #5 was 30-thou under. Bugger. Needs to be virgin or 10-thou at most to suit the Mitsi rods.

Packed away the remains and went to work on the next dead grey. Halfway through the job and a shelf collapses in the shed, and it starts raining Holley carbs. Swore, rebuilt the shelf, and tried again. Got the big end caps off - eureka! A virgin crank. Ally timing gear was not aligned to get the cam lock plate off, so can’t remove the cam, so can’t remove the engine plate, so can’t remove the crank. Engine is seized, so can’t turn the cam to align the holes. Pistons are rusted into the bores, so can’t free the crank. Alloy cam gear is a heavy casting and won’t accept a puller. I can hear “there’s a hole in the bucket” playing. Came close to attacking the cam gear with a grinder.

Undo caps, break out the bfh and drive out pistons. Shatter two of them along the way. Turn crank, remove cam, swear at the two slot head screws holding engine plate. Burr screws, tap round with drift. Remove crank. Do a small happy dance amongst the oily debris.

Crank #6 now at the machinist for crack testing... fingers crossed.

Cheers,
Harv