Club plate change trial

[bootlegger]

Ok so heres one from left field. What about a 50s lead sled. They were built when the cars were new. Had wild metalflake paint jobs and slammed on the ground.
I know of a chopped merc running around on historic plates right now.

[bootlegger]

Or even a t &*#@ or austin seven based special with special racing heads etc? All period stuff.

[Dr Terry]

Ok so heres one from left field. What about a 50s lead sled. They were built when the cars were new. Had wild metalflake paint jobs and slammed on the ground.
I know of a chopped merc running around on historic plates right now.

I'm sure led sleds were not built when those cars were new, they were a 70s & 80s thing.

Chopping a roof is clearly a serious 'modification' which would definitely require engineering. It think that it one the crosses that line where an accessory becomes a modification.

I believe that such a 'mod' would not classify as an 'option' or 'accessory' whether it was period or not.

That chopped Mercury is currently totally illegal in my view, but would be eligible & OK for the proposed log book scheme, as long as it was with engineered correctly.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Or even a t &*#@ or austin seven based special with special racing heads etc? All period stuff.

Any 'specials' would be OK as long as they are correct for period & they are RMS road legal.

The only thing preventing say a Repco Round Australia Commodore being on concessional rego, would be the lack of any correct anti-pollution gear.

Dr Terry

[WayneXG95]

No one's asked the sensible questions yet but I have been asked this one.
If you run out of your 60 days can you just apply and pay for more or do you have to register the car again to get the extra time.
I can't find anything one the RMS site about this one.
I don't expect you to know this Terry, I'm prepared to wait.

Cheers

Wayne

[WayneXG95]

Been on the phone for two days without success, so I guess we wait until the dust settles?
Oh well..

Wayne, be patient. You will probably learn more thru the CMC, make sure your delegate attends the next meeting on Tuesday 20/9/15. I'm sure this topic will be high on the agenda !!

As soon as anything is released, the CMC will probably know about it sooner than most.

Dr Terry

Terry

The 20th is a Sunday is there another date I suppose I should go.
Can you PM me and tell me which Terry I'm talking to and the details of this meeting please?

Cheers
Wayne

[Cal]

No one's asked the sensible questions yet but I have been asked this one.
If you run out of your 60 days can you just apply and pay for more or do you have to register the car again to get the extra time.
I can't find anything one the RMS site about this one.
I don't expect you to know this Terry, I'm prepared to wait.

Cheers

Wayne

I'd assume that once you reach 60 days, that's it. Any further than that and you need full rego.

I can see there being a big shit fight as to what's a period option and accessory. I assume by 'period" they mean for the time frame the car was in production ?

[Mick]

No one's asked the sensible questions yet but I have been asked this one.
If you run out of your 60 days can you just apply and pay for more or do you have to register the car again to get the extra time.
I can't find anything one the RMS site about this one.
I don't expect you to know this Terry, I'm prepared to wait.

Cheers

Wayne

I'd assume that once you reach 60 days, that's it. Any further than that and you need full rego.

I can see there being a big shit fight as to what's a period option and accessory. I assume by 'period" they mean for the time frame the car was in production ?

though some clubs look at the period accessory/modification thing very differently based on what i've seen i would say that from what Dr Terry has said it's pretty much things that could have been bolted on with no modifications and NOT requiring engineering
BUT it's all still fairly vague as i can remember a time and it was over 30 years ago that you could put a red motor even up to 186 WITHOUT needing engineering just as an engine swap so as far as i would be concerned if you can have a "special" then what is the difference to modifications that could be carried out in the time period that at that stage didn't need engineering

[bootlegger]

Lead sleds were built when the cars were new. Several builders like Barris used to have new cars delivered to them to be modified. Let's not forget the many coach builders who built one offs as well.

[Devilrod]

I'm sure led sleds were not built when those cars were new, they were a 70s & 80s thing

Gotta correct you there Dr Terry, most were brand new cars back in the 50's when changed. Sam Barris chopped a brand new Mercury and many would buy them then head straight to a custom shop to fill badge holes, lower and add custom paint. That's how panel paint and scallops started. But we digress.

Can I ask why the Victorian model was not something they have gone with? Choice of 45 or 90 days, modified, stock and a list of acceptable known practices from years back are all acceptable. Those being the changes we do which can often be a grey area, but which benefit not only those that like mild mods to those restorers who have no choice but to use later model stuff. We have the choice of H (stock or accepted mods), M (engineered cars and hot rods) and SR ( street rod rego - ASRF members only).

[Dr Terry]

Been on the phone for two days without success, so I guess we wait until the dust settles?
Oh well..

Wayne, be patient. You will probably learn more thru the CMC, make sure your delegate attends the next meeting on Tuesday 20/9/15. I'm sure this topic will be high on the agenda !!

As soon as anything is released, the CMC will probably know about it sooner than most.

Dr Terry

Terry

The 20th is a Sunday is there another date I suppose I should go.
Can you PM me and tell me which Terry I'm talking to and the details of this meeting please?

Cheers
Wayne

Sorry Wayne, a typo I think, or fat fingers (whatever), but the date is not the 20th it is the 30th Sept, which is a Tuesday.

I do not try to hide my identity, my full name is Terry Bebbington, an avid Holden enthusiast & author of 60 Years of Holden. If you've seen that book, you'll probably know who I am.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

I'm sure led sleds were not built when those cars were new, they were a 70s & 80s thing

Gotta correct you there Dr Terry, most were brand new cars back in the 50's when changed. Sam Barris chopped a brand new Mercury and many would buy them then head straight to a custom shop to fill badge holes, lower and add custom paint. That's how panel paint and scallops started. But we digress.

You are correct, however the Sam Barris cars were one-off seriously modified cars & were not 'era typical' of cars of the 50s. Even they were, they involve serious modifications, which need engineering approval, so obviously they are not acceptable on H-plates. If engineered, they will probably qualify for the new scheme. As I've said a couple of times now, the word 'modified' does not appear in the RMS H-plate rules.

Can I ask why the Victorian model was not something they have gone with? Choice of 45 or 90 days, modified, stock and a list of acceptable known practices from years back are all acceptable. Those being the changes we do which can often be a grey area, but which benefit not only those that like mild mods to those restorers who have no choice but to use later model stuff. We have the choice of H (stock or accepted mods), M (engineered cars and hot rods) and SR ( street rod rego - ASRF members only).

I don't want to go into the 'nitty gritty' of the problem with the Victorian model, but there are several serious issues down there.

Victoria does not have yearly NSW pink slip type inspections, so once a 'dodgy car' has been 'accepted, then it goes under the radar for good. There are a lot of unroadworthy cars (drag cars & others) in Victoria masquerading as 'historic' & the insurance companies are seeing a surge in comprehensive claims as a result. All this does is make it more difficult & more expensive for the genuine guys who just want to enjoy their old car every 2nd weekend, or whatever.

Dr Terry.

[Dr Terry]

though some clubs look at the period accessory/modification thing very differently based on what i've seen i would say that from what Dr Terry has said it's pretty much things that could have been bolted on with no modifications and NOT requiring engineering
BUT it's all still fairly vague as i can remember a time and it was over 30 years ago that you could put a red motor even up to 186 WITHOUT needing engineering just as an engine swap so as far as i would be concerned if you can have a "special" then what is the difference to modifications that could be carried out in the time period that at that stage didn't need engineering

As I mentioned earlier, FB & EK Holdens were on the market well over 50 years ago. Just because it was commonplace to fit Red motors to them 30 years ago, doesn't make it 'era correct'.

Look guys, I'm not trying to be the policeman here, but how much do you stretch the rules ?

A red-motored FB or EK with a 186/202 or whatever is fine, as long as it has engineering approval (which would be pretty easy) & it will be fine on the new rego scheme, but I simply can't see how they were ever acceptable on H-plates.

Dr Terry

[WayneXG95]

Thanks Terry

[Mick]

though some clubs look at the period accessory/modification thing very differently based on what i've seen i would say that from what Dr Terry has said it's pretty much things that could have been bolted on with no modifications and NOT requiring engineering
BUT it's all still fairly vague as i can remember a time and it was over 30 years ago that you could put a red motor even up to 186 WITHOUT needing engineering just as an engine swap so as far as i would be concerned if you can have a "special" then what is the difference to modifications that could be carried out in the time period that at that stage didn't need engineering

As I mentioned earlier, FB & EK Holdens were on the market well over 50 years ago. Just because it was commonplace to fit Red motors to them 30 years ago, doesn't make it 'era correct'.

Look guys, I'm not trying to be the policeman here, but how much do you stretch the rules ?

A red-motered FB or EK with a 186/202 or whatever is fine, as long as it has engineering approval (which would be pretty easy0 & it will be fine on the new rego scheme, but I simply can't see how they were ever acceptable on H-plates.

Dr Terry

don't take anything i'm saying as an arguement it's just disscussion and thinking out loud, it's good to hear from someone that knows what the rules are