Red motor puzzle

Includes fuel system, cooling system and exhaust.

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melly
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Red motor puzzle

Post by melly »

Hi All,

Had a little bit of spare time to get into the shed recently and trying to get the bits for this red motor together so I can have a crack at putting it in.
Can the brains trust here help out please- specifically with the puzzle of the studs/ nuts/ bolts to fasten the manifolds to the head. The extractors are genie that came with car, the Holley set up Ive just acquired as the mock up/ get it running combo. The containers with the parts are what ive dug out as possible hardware... any particular order for the fasteners and clamp plates? the other pics are just for reference for you guys that know to cast your eyes over to see if it looks right? The three studs in the fwd end of the head were the only ones left in there and are in pretty solid.
P.S its a long shot, but eventually I'm hoping to have webers in there- anyone know of a set with manifold to suit that are for sale? Found some on evilbay for about 3 n half grand. Do I need to source a specific manifold, the firewall has been cut back already?

cheers all,
Melly
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Errol62
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by Errol62 »

From factory I believe they were all studs bar the outer ends which were dowels. The dowels were often replaced with bolts when tubular headers were fitted due to the interminable difficulty in getting the things to seal. The studs were UNC into the block and UNF sticking out, but they are no longer available, so I used coarse nuts. For a decent seal the bosses need to be equal height either side of the stud, and the square pressed washers are used. Any elongated ones in your collection will be from grey motors.

All I know about webers is they are expensive, you have to cut the firewall, not very economical lol, and don’t know about specific manifolds. They look the goods.


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Errol62
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by Errol62 »

Electronic dissy you have is a good way to go. Not so much the high volume oil pump apparently they just fill the rocker cover up with oil. Although I suppose you could restrict the pushrods and open up the drains in the head.


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Harv
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by Harv »

Interesting Holley. What is the List number please?

Holley list and model number.jpg
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Cheers,
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ehsv6
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by ehsv6 »

Pics from service manual and real oneImage
Image
Image


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ehsv6
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by ehsv6 »

Just noticed should be studs as described earlier but a mix of square and rectangular washers.
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melly
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by melly »

Harv wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 9:02 am Interesting Holley. What is the List number please?


Holley list and model number.jpg


Cheers,
Harv
Hey Harv- this what you were after?
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cheers, melly
melly
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by melly »

Thanks fellas, good info Clay and the pics help ehsv6- from the photos it looks like the standard setup had washers at every junction? I'll have play around with different configs to see if I can make it work.

cheers guys
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Harv
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by Harv »

Thanks Melly.

R-1850-2 is a 600cfm 4-barrel... that's a lot of carb for a red motor, more suited to a high-zoot V8.

Had hoped it was the elusive 390 Holley, which it better suited (much smaller venturis).

Cheers,
Harv
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ardiesse
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by ardiesse »

Melly,

From memory, the order of fasteners for standard red motor manifolds is: dowel-bolt-stud-bolt-bolt-stud-bolt-dowel. The rectangular washers are used with the studs, square washers with the bolts. The studs are so you can slide the inlet manifold into place, through the holes in the casting. With aftermarket manifolds and extractors, it's Rafferty's rules.

Do you know the "two-nut" trick for extracting studs? (Screw two nuts onto the stud. Tighten the nuts hard against each other. Using a ring spanner on the inner nut, unscrew the stud from the head.) Don't be tempted to use vise-grips. You'll just end up mooshing threads.

But I've just noticed that your harmonic balancer is nowhere near "home". It's sticking out maybe 6-8 mm further than it should.

Rob
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Harv
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by Harv »

Try not to perform Harv's stud removal trick:

Install double nuts, start to remove stud, get impatient and snap the stud off in the head.
Swear.
Curse the fact that you can't weld a washer/nut onto the end of the snapped stud.
Promise yourself you'll learn to weld one day.
Centre punch the stud-end off-centre.
Drill pilot hole then realise the off-centre hole will not allow you to drill out all the stud.
Swear.
Fit Ezyout to pilot hole and start to lean on it.
Stop and realise that Ezyouts are the hardest substance known to man, and that if it snaps you are in trouble (you have done this before).
Swear.
Drill the hole larger, praying the thread will let go.
Realise the siezed thread has more patience than you do.
Swear.
Procrastinate a few days.
Give in and try the Ezyout again.
By this time the seized thread has taken pity on you, and comes out.
Do a happy dance.
Promise yourself you will use WD40, heated candlewax, ATF/acetone or similar stuff next time.

Cheers,
Harv
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Brett027
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by Brett027 »

Hey Harv, if it's a bolt seized in cast iron, the easiest way to get it out is to weld (mig/tig or arc) a blob of metal big enough to get a pair of vice-grips on it. It may take a couple of goes, but in the process the heat usually frees it up. Being in cast, the weld stays on the bolt stem and causes no problems. There is little risk of breaks.
For all other substrates and tiny screws, accurate drilling to almost thread level and picking out the remnants works too. Anyone who has snapped an easyout is always hesitant to use them again. As you infamously say: "dont ask me how I know".
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Harv
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by Harv »

Lol... you should see my welding. You would not trust me to weld a washer to a bolt head.

Thirty years ago I wanted to weld. MIGs were getting cheaper, and sounded like a great idea. My boily brother-in-law convinced me that I needed to learn how to stick weld before MIG... if I couldn't stick weld then I would never learn properly. Bought myself a SIP Merlin stick welder, and a heap of scrap. Have had more than a few goes over the years. An auto darkening helmet helped a bit last year.

I vary wildly between blowing holes in stuff and lack of penetration, mostly the latter. The running gag is that I need to weld with the handpiece in one hand and the welding pick in the other... to bash the electrode free after I stick it to the job.

I understand the theory pretty well... did a lot of reading, and have had the brother-in-law guide me for half an hour multiple times. Suspect a lot of it is needing to practice more. Would love to do a TAFE course, but working away from home means I can't commit to the time.

Cheers,
Harv
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funkyscooter
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by funkyscooter »

Hey Harv, what did you do to piss off your brother in law? :lol: Think he is winding you up! Stick SUCKS! I did the same thing. Bought a cheap stick to learn, got frustrated (its called stick for a reason) and bought a cheap MIG. So much easier to control and learn.
Scott
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Errol62
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Re: Red motor puzzle

Post by Errol62 »

My thoughts exactly.

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