Ej Bellhousing

Includes clutch, transmission, propeller shaft,
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EJVince
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State: NSW

Ej Bellhousing

Post by EJVince »

Just curious, does anyone know of any way of checking an EJ Bellhousing to see if it is warped, I have seen mention before of service bulletin that the EJ Bellhousing is susceptible to warping, and thinking even 1 or 2mm out could cause gear jump out issues, and visual inspection wouldn't really tell you this I would think. Definitely going to change the one I have on the car, and have one that a guy told me was good when last in use.
ardiesse
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Re: Ej Bellhousing

Post by ardiesse »

It's best to take the bellhousing to an engine shop and get them to measure it for you.

If you're going to all this trouble, it's a good idea to check that the big hole in the bellhousing rear face is in line with the crankshaft axis, as misalignment is another cause of gear jump-out. This is a serious engineering job, and usually means an engine-out.

Rob
EJVince
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Re: Ej Bellhousing

Post by EJVince »

Thanks for the reply, that makes sense that the hole in bellhousing rear face is in alignment with the crankshaft axis being the critical element, you would think logically it wouldn't bolt on if this face was warped though. Seems more critical thinking about it that the input shaft would have to be central in relation to the hole.

I also saw mention the gearbox case can get stretched too, although that seems to solid to stretch.
ardiesse
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Re: Ej Bellhousing

Post by ardiesse »

Looking through an archive of "Accelerator" magazine (https://hrc.org.au/holden/accelerator.html):

Feb/Mar 1956 has an article on curing gearbox case to engine misalignment. It's for the FJ, but the principle is general. In short: Make a mandrel and install it in the bare transmission case. Remove the clutch, pressure plate, flywheel and spigot bearing from the engine. Stand the engine on its nose. Remove the bellhousing locating dowels. Attach bellhousing and gearbox case to engine. Mount dial indicator to mandrel. Index dial indicator onto the spigot bearing bore in crankshaft. Rotate mandrel and record run-out. Loosen bellhousing attaching bolts and gently tap bellhousing into the zero run-out position. Tighten bolts. Ream dowel holes oversize and make new, oversize locating dowels. Drive dowels into position. Rebuild vehicle. Job done.

On EJ gearbox troubles more specifically -

Jan/Feb 1963: revised shifter yokes.

Mar 1963: Carefully de-burr the mating faces of the gearbox case and bellhousing to avoid misalignment on assembly.

August 1963: how to shim the input shaft bearing so you don't chew up the top gear synchro cone when accelerating hard in second gear.

Jan/Feb 1964: correcting oil leaks at the front of the transmission case.

Rob
EJVince
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State: NSW

Re: Ej Bellhousing

Post by EJVince »

Thanks Rob, that's some great information in those accelerator magazines, just been reading through some and certainly giving me some ideas.

Some other articles in there that confirmed some stuff I had figured out last time I pulled the current box appart also, as put some eh gears in from another box as some were chipped up, and changed side cover a couple of times with different yokes. Worked fine until I let someone else reco clutch, and someone else reco the gearbox.

Need to spend a bit more time going through these, then will work on the spare Ej box and bellhousing I have on the bench. Will get that right before doing a changeover. Then will look real close at the one I take off to try and figure out where it failed. Should be interesting.

Really appreciate it mate.

Cheers Vince.
ardiesse
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Re: Ej Bellhousing

Post by ardiesse »

Vince,

What was the nature of the gearbox failure?

A word of warning about playing mix'n'match with gearbox internals from different models - the parts look similar, but either don't mate, or don't work properly when assembled. Been there, done that.

Some time in EH production, just about every gearbox component was redesigned. The relative locations of the synchros were changed, I think to stop the "chewing-up of the top gear synchro in second" problem. Along with that, the spline dimensions were changed to prevent you from using (say) an early first-reverse gear on a late synchro hub, and so on. The revised components have a groove machined into them, which can be difficult to see.

One way around the problem may be to get a known good original HR or HK crashbox, and transfer all the internals into your EJ case. Or, if your spare EJ 'box has all original internals, don't swap anything.

Rob
EJVince
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Re: Ej Bellhousing

Post by EJVince »

Very interesting Rob, I have wondered over the years about the effect of the gears I swapped about 15 years ago, at the time I had about 4 boxes I got from swap meets, I pulled them appart and took best gears out, some I couldn't match part numbers from my master.parts catalogue so were probably from later boxes, some the numbers had worn off a bit, but I was pretty sure the main cluster gear and clutch gear I swapped were from an EH box, they were the 2 I swapped. My old cluster gear was quite chipped, and I liked the idea of the later input shaft which has the little breather hole. The box went well for about 10 years after that appart from changing the side cover which cured a bit of gear jump out once before to a lesser extent. I put new layshaft and needle rollers in too.

The real problems started about 4 years ago when I got a mechanic in Wodonga to reco the clutch as decided I was getting to old to do my own work on car. He said flywheel and bellhousing was stuffed so he put second hand replacements on, he assured me they were checked and machined. All clutch parts and pilot bushing were replaced. Was jumping out of third going downhill quite a bit after that, he said was to do with gearbox, and was a coincidence that happened after clutch replacement. Moved then to Tathra straight after.

Then got a guy in Bega to reco my gearnox with full kit, no difference in gear jump out.

Experimented with gearshift linkage adjustment, no difference. Changed engine mounts front and rear, starangely since jumps out of top gear going uphill once you stop accelerating.

Since have been only drinving to and from work 16km each way, and hold gearstick one hand, and hand on steering wheel other, had enough of this by now.

Got my spare box off a guy who says it come off his dads ej when he put an auto in, was working okay then, have a rare spares kit I will put through it anyway while off. Will keep all existing gears I think.

Cheers Vince
Last edited by EJVince on Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
ardiesse
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Re: Ej Bellhousing

Post by ardiesse »

Vince,

Jumping out of top gear is a symptom of shaft misalignment. Some other things to check for -

The upper clutch cover (the plate between the block and the bellhousing) - check that it's flat and clean of dirt and burrs.

Check the fit of the input shaft bearing outer race in the transmission case, and in the bellhousing. It's supposed to be a slight push fit. The bearing outer race is all that locates the gearbox in position on the bellhousing. If the bearing's a loose fit in its bore in the bellhousing, correct shaft alignment will be lost.

The big Belleville washer which retains the input shaft and throwout bearing guide is another weak point. They frequently crack. And the washer always wants to slide off the outer bearing race. It contacts the bore in the bellhousing and wears a groove in it.

You *could*, if you wanted, cut up a few Coke cans to make shims, and insert them between the bellhousing and engine. By varying the thickness of the shim stacks, you can make the input shaft align with the crankshaft at the spigot bearing. But it's a laborious, trial-and-error process.

Rob
EJVince
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Re: Ej Bellhousing

Post by EJVince »

Thanks Rob, that sounds spot on to me, will check all those things for sure. Taken box off quite a few times, but not bellhousing myself previously.

I gave the mechanic a new old stock bellview washer I got from Rare Spares a while back, as well as full reco kit.

I will post progress photos in a thread here when I get time to start in a couple of weeks, still interstate on holiday right now.

Thanks for all the advice, most appreciated.

Cheers Vince
ardiesse
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:57 am
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Re: Ej Bellhousing

Post by ardiesse »

Vince,

Chrysler has a better method of checking bellhousings and making adjustments than Holden. Chrysler suggests two measurements, and has a method of correction for each condition -

Bore Runout. Remove clutch and pressure plate from flywheel. Bolt the bellhousing to the engine. Fit a dial indicator to bear on the bore of the bellhousing. (Chrysler uses a special tool; but a magnetic base on the flywheel face may be stiff enough.) Turn the engine over by hand, noting down the dial indicator readings, and the position of max and min readings. Chrysler serviced offset dowels in various offsets. You choose the right ones and install them in the correct orientation to correct the bore run-out. If only Holden had done the same . . .

Face runout. Relocate the dial indicator so it bears on the rear face of the bellhousing, where the transmission bolts on. Turn the engine over by hand, noting the total runout, and the position where the indicator reading is minimum (greatest extension of plunger). Insert shims between the bellhousing and engine block to reduce the face run-out to zero. (See - my Coke can idea wasn't too far-fetched.)

You would have to correct the face run-out first before attempting to cure bore run-out, because shimming the bellhousing moves the bore with respect to the crankshaft axis.

Taken from the CM Valiant service manual.

If you can get a suitable dial indicator and magnetic base, the Chrysler method may be manageable.

Rob
EJVince
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Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:14 pm
State: NSW

Re: Ej Bellhousing

Post by EJVince »

Thanks Rob, I had see this method suggested in a few sources. I did think your coke can shims idea was a pretty good idea actually.
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