Brake upgrade project
Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 9:26 pm
Hi,
Thought I would share the path I took to upgrade the brakes on the Ute.
Before I start;
1 skinning cats, many ways to do it, no right or wrong way. Choose yours.
2 the internet is full of great information. It’s got even more misinformation.
3 measure your own set up. Then measure it again
4 big thanks to Rob and Blacky from the forum
Some background.
When I first got the Ute on the road it had a HR front end with drums all round. I drove this like it for about 3 years not knowing any different. Then I came across a vh44.
The guy stated it would make braking a dream. I was sceptical but tried it. Nearly went through the window on the test drive!
Started to think of getting number plates ‘latebrake’.
For what they are they are a great unit that makes an overall good system better. For the price and simple mods needed.
I kept this set up for another 17 years. First VH44 unit lasted 13.
Now to the upgrade.
First thing I did was selected wheels.
Ended up choosing a set of bci 15 inch steel to replace the Torana widened wheels I had see below
The reason for the 15 inch bci.
Firstly old olden rims are, well, not young anymore.
Second I wanted good straight true rims.
Third I also wanted to fit 11 inch ventilated disc and even the hoppers 300mm kit as an option.
The bci also have good backspace options to keep the wheel nice and tight on the wheel track and avoid the guards
So I got these
So wheels on and the most surprising thing happened. For the first time the Ute actually steered light. Had a tighter turning circle and the tyres fitted under the guards without rubbing.
Lesson learnt, the torana widened wheels were all widened to increase wheel track and no change to back space therefore scrub angle and the tyre been further away from the ball joints means it was fighting itself. Keeping the wheel back in under the ball joints with back space made all the difference. Knowing this and the difference it made to the Ute makes me wonder why I didn’t do it sooner.
Next step, what type of braking set up do I want?
Well dual circuit for a start.
Boosted also. I thought a long time for firewall mounted v remote mounted and decided I wanted to boost the back also been a Ute and having loads. But we know the front does most of the braking work so I my not matter either way. Good thing is I chose something!
Disc on the front. Tried and tested 11 inch ventilated
So the booster master proportioning valve set up I based off Brodie’s set up (thanks). And sticking to HJ series parts to keep it all balanced
I started thinking the path of HK/G/T discs stubs so sourced a set of stubs hubs discs and calipers. Same stud pattern and I was lead to believe the stub axles were the right ones for the job.
So had this set up.
Several things came to light.
Firstly the HK/G/T set up gave a wheel track wider than the HR on drum I had and all the great steering and handling improvements were diminished somewhat.
I was going to have to think more on steering set up . And I really wanted ventilated disc.
So I went this set up. Well started to.
HQ rotor redrilled to early pattern with HR steering arms. With the pbr caliper.
Three problems.
Wide track as the HK
Bump steer test resulted in set up more suited for drifting
Those calipers interfered a lot on both upper and lower wishbones and would need far more cutting then I was willing to do. And to add a fourth, those pbr design are pretty average. The amount of play on the mounting shafts just leads to dramas (imho). There are better designs.
So I asked some wise forum people (Rob, Blacky) And was given good advice. Firstly change to hk steering arms. As the hq axle stub is higher by 1 inch ( meaning the car sits lower by the same amount) hk arm is on top see it lower at the tie rod end.
Did a second bump steer test without springs in the front.
As you can see the bumpmaster 4000 special HRT factory tool
Results were good. No toe out on bump. Minimal tow in on rebound. One problem fixed
Wheel track. I recalled something Blacky said about P76 rotor kit to HQ stub. So checked the forum. Yep.
Sourced a set of undrilled rotors and a kit and for the second time in as many months setup to early pattern rotor on hq stub.
The result, 38mm total reduction in wheel track. 6mm less than the hr drums.
Now the calipers
Sources and rebuilt the second pair of calipers but now the girlock cast/alloy ones
Minimal trimming on wishbones not a single spot weld disturbed
The rear
New ej drums. Yes they fit and work
Fitted H series 7/8 diameter cylinders to balance system making sure they aligned to a 1 inch ek std diameter. (Adjusted the tin backing plate) Used ek brake adjusters with the collar trimmed down
Front locks before rear
Overall very happy
Blackdog
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thought I would share the path I took to upgrade the brakes on the Ute.
Before I start;
1 skinning cats, many ways to do it, no right or wrong way. Choose yours.
2 the internet is full of great information. It’s got even more misinformation.
3 measure your own set up. Then measure it again
4 big thanks to Rob and Blacky from the forum
Some background.
When I first got the Ute on the road it had a HR front end with drums all round. I drove this like it for about 3 years not knowing any different. Then I came across a vh44.
The guy stated it would make braking a dream. I was sceptical but tried it. Nearly went through the window on the test drive!
Started to think of getting number plates ‘latebrake’.
For what they are they are a great unit that makes an overall good system better. For the price and simple mods needed.
I kept this set up for another 17 years. First VH44 unit lasted 13.
Now to the upgrade.
First thing I did was selected wheels.
Ended up choosing a set of bci 15 inch steel to replace the Torana widened wheels I had see below
The reason for the 15 inch bci.
Firstly old olden rims are, well, not young anymore.
Second I wanted good straight true rims.
Third I also wanted to fit 11 inch ventilated disc and even the hoppers 300mm kit as an option.
The bci also have good backspace options to keep the wheel nice and tight on the wheel track and avoid the guards
So I got these
So wheels on and the most surprising thing happened. For the first time the Ute actually steered light. Had a tighter turning circle and the tyres fitted under the guards without rubbing.
Lesson learnt, the torana widened wheels were all widened to increase wheel track and no change to back space therefore scrub angle and the tyre been further away from the ball joints means it was fighting itself. Keeping the wheel back in under the ball joints with back space made all the difference. Knowing this and the difference it made to the Ute makes me wonder why I didn’t do it sooner.
Next step, what type of braking set up do I want?
Well dual circuit for a start.
Boosted also. I thought a long time for firewall mounted v remote mounted and decided I wanted to boost the back also been a Ute and having loads. But we know the front does most of the braking work so I my not matter either way. Good thing is I chose something!
Disc on the front. Tried and tested 11 inch ventilated
So the booster master proportioning valve set up I based off Brodie’s set up (thanks). And sticking to HJ series parts to keep it all balanced
I started thinking the path of HK/G/T discs stubs so sourced a set of stubs hubs discs and calipers. Same stud pattern and I was lead to believe the stub axles were the right ones for the job.
So had this set up.
Several things came to light.
Firstly the HK/G/T set up gave a wheel track wider than the HR on drum I had and all the great steering and handling improvements were diminished somewhat.
I was going to have to think more on steering set up . And I really wanted ventilated disc.
So I went this set up. Well started to.
HQ rotor redrilled to early pattern with HR steering arms. With the pbr caliper.
Three problems.
Wide track as the HK
Bump steer test resulted in set up more suited for drifting
Those calipers interfered a lot on both upper and lower wishbones and would need far more cutting then I was willing to do. And to add a fourth, those pbr design are pretty average. The amount of play on the mounting shafts just leads to dramas (imho). There are better designs.
So I asked some wise forum people (Rob, Blacky) And was given good advice. Firstly change to hk steering arms. As the hq axle stub is higher by 1 inch ( meaning the car sits lower by the same amount) hk arm is on top see it lower at the tie rod end.
Did a second bump steer test without springs in the front.
As you can see the bumpmaster 4000 special HRT factory tool
Results were good. No toe out on bump. Minimal tow in on rebound. One problem fixed
Wheel track. I recalled something Blacky said about P76 rotor kit to HQ stub. So checked the forum. Yep.
Sourced a set of undrilled rotors and a kit and for the second time in as many months setup to early pattern rotor on hq stub.
The result, 38mm total reduction in wheel track. 6mm less than the hr drums.
Now the calipers
Sources and rebuilt the second pair of calipers but now the girlock cast/alloy ones
Minimal trimming on wishbones not a single spot weld disturbed
The rear
New ej drums. Yes they fit and work
Fitted H series 7/8 diameter cylinders to balance system making sure they aligned to a 1 inch ek std diameter. (Adjusted the tin backing plate) Used ek brake adjusters with the collar trimmed down
Front locks before rear
Overall very happy
Blackdog
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk