Brake upgrade project

Includes handbrake, cylinders, shoes, discs, rims and rubber.

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Blackdog
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:41 pm
State: WA
Location: Perth Hills

Brake upgrade project

Post by Blackdog »

Hi,
Thought I would share the path I took to upgrade the brakes on the Ute.
Before I start;
1 skinning cats, many ways to do it, no right or wrong way. Choose yours.
2 the internet is full of great information. It’s got even more misinformation.
3 measure your own set up. Then measure it again
4 big thanks to Rob and Blacky from the forum


Some background.
When I first got the Ute on the road it had a HR front end with drums all round. I drove this like it for about 3 years not knowing any different. Then I came across a vh44.

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The guy stated it would make braking a dream. I was sceptical but tried it. Nearly went through the window on the test drive!
Started to think of getting number plates ‘latebrake’.

For what they are they are a great unit that makes an overall good system better. For the price and simple mods needed.
I kept this set up for another 17 years. First VH44 unit lasted 13.

Now to the upgrade.

First thing I did was selected wheels.
Ended up choosing a set of bci 15 inch steel to replace the Torana widened wheels I had see below

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The reason for the 15 inch bci.
Firstly old olden rims are, well, not young anymore.
Second I wanted good straight true rims.
Third I also wanted to fit 11 inch ventilated disc and even the hoppers 300mm kit as an option.
The bci also have good backspace options to keep the wheel nice and tight on the wheel track and avoid the guards
So I got these
Image

So wheels on and the most surprising thing happened. For the first time the Ute actually steered light. Had a tighter turning circle and the tyres fitted under the guards without rubbing.

Lesson learnt, the torana widened wheels were all widened to increase wheel track and no change to back space therefore scrub angle and the tyre been further away from the ball joints means it was fighting itself. Keeping the wheel back in under the ball joints with back space made all the difference. Knowing this and the difference it made to the Ute makes me wonder why I didn’t do it sooner.

Next step, what type of braking set up do I want?
Well dual circuit for a start.
Boosted also. I thought a long time for firewall mounted v remote mounted and decided I wanted to boost the back also been a Ute and having loads. But we know the front does most of the braking work so I my not matter either way. Good thing is I chose something!
Disc on the front. Tried and tested 11 inch ventilated

So the booster master proportioning valve set up I based off Brodie’s set up (thanks). And sticking to HJ series parts to keep it all balanced


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I started thinking the path of HK/G/T discs stubs so sourced a set of stubs hubs discs and calipers. Same stud pattern and I was lead to believe the stub axles were the right ones for the job.
So had this set up.

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Several things came to light.
Firstly the HK/G/T set up gave a wheel track wider than the HR on drum I had and all the great steering and handling improvements were diminished somewhat.
I was going to have to think more on steering set up . And I really wanted ventilated disc.

So I went this set up. Well started to.
HQ rotor redrilled to early pattern with HR steering arms. With the pbr caliper.

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Three problems.
Wide track as the HK
Bump steer test resulted in set up more suited for drifting
Those calipers interfered a lot on both upper and lower wishbones and would need far more cutting then I was willing to do. And to add a fourth, those pbr design are pretty average. The amount of play on the mounting shafts just leads to dramas (imho). There are better designs.


So I asked some wise forum people (Rob, Blacky) And was given good advice. Firstly change to hk steering arms. As the hq axle stub is higher by 1 inch ( meaning the car sits lower by the same amount) hk arm is on top see it lower at the tie rod end.

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Did a second bump steer test without springs in the front.
As you can see the bumpmaster 4000 special HRT factory tool

Image

Results were good. No toe out on bump. Minimal tow in on rebound. One problem fixed

Wheel track. I recalled something Blacky said about P76 rotor kit to HQ stub. So checked the forum. Yep.
Sourced a set of undrilled rotors and a kit and for the second time in as many months setup to early pattern rotor on hq stub.

Image

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The result, 38mm total reduction in wheel track. 6mm less than the hr drums.

Now the calipers
Sources and rebuilt the second pair of calipers but now the girlock cast/alloy ones
Minimal trimming on wishbones not a single spot weld disturbed

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The rear
New ej drums. Yes they fit and work
Fitted H series 7/8 diameter cylinders to balance system making sure they aligned to a 1 inch ek std diameter. (Adjusted the tin backing plate) Used ek brake adjusters with the collar trimmed down

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Front locks before rear
Overall very happy

Blackdog

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Last edited by Blackdog on Tue May 25, 2021 9:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Nostalgia isn’t what it used to be.
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Errol62
Posts: 9664
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:44 pm
State: SA
Location: Adelaide

Re: Brake upgrade project

Post by Errol62 »

Quite a process. Admirable patience and perseverance. The p76 discs sound good reducing the track, and hq calipers bolted up ok, apart from clearancing suspension?

What’s got me really intrigued: you retained stock rear axle and modified the backing plates to accept later wheel cylinders? Very ingenious. True hot rodding, none of this bolt on compatibility rubbish.

Thanks for sharing Black dog.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
Blackdog
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:41 pm
State: WA
Location: Perth Hills

Re: Brake upgrade project

Post by Blackdog »

Thanks Clay.

As you know, lots of thinking time needed before lots of action time.
Yeah P76 is a great concept. The rotors themselves are not as wide as hq by 11mm. And with the kit there are 8mm spaces that bring the caliper in. The kit also allows the bearing to run close to the stub axle. So 19 mm difference each side. I will say it’s tight clearance rotor to stub axle but enough.

The rear. I just thought about the least engineered piece in a rear brake and that’s the pressed backing plate that you and flex by hand. And keeping as much of it as ek as you can because it works. The slave cylinders all work the same way. the ek cups push the adjusting nut on the edge of the cup not the middle so just made the hq ones do the same.

It’s one way, not the only way.

Blackdog
Nostalgia isn’t what it used to be.
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