Help with Grey motor issue
-
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:52 pm
- State: VIC
- Location: Great Western
Help with Grey motor issue
G'day,
I need some help with the 138 in my sons paddock bomb EJ. It stopped the other day with no spark, I have changed coil, coil lead, had the distributor apart and cleaned all the contacts up, checked timing, checked fuel and all good. It now has spark but wont run. If I sneak up on it in the morning, full choke it will start and then stop after a few seconds. I can then spin the dam thing over for hours and it will pop occasionally but wont start. Next morning it will start and then stop; same story. What the hell is going on do you reckon, plenty of fuel, spark is there but wont run. Any help appreciated as I need it out the shed so I can get some other stuff done, thanks.
Al
I need some help with the 138 in my sons paddock bomb EJ. It stopped the other day with no spark, I have changed coil, coil lead, had the distributor apart and cleaned all the contacts up, checked timing, checked fuel and all good. It now has spark but wont run. If I sneak up on it in the morning, full choke it will start and then stop after a few seconds. I can then spin the dam thing over for hours and it will pop occasionally but wont start. Next morning it will start and then stop; same story. What the hell is going on do you reckon, plenty of fuel, spark is there but wont run. Any help appreciated as I need it out the shed so I can get some other stuff done, thanks.
Al
Re: Help with Grey motor issue
Fuel pump? If there is a fuel filter check that out first.
Re: Help with Grey motor issue
I had a problem like this years ago and turned out to be a partially blocked fuel line.
Greg
Greg
So many cars so little time!
Re: Help with Grey motor issue
Still using a classic as a paddock-basher? My nephew bought a 2005 VZ wagon for the same purpose. Cannot get my head around using a "new" car for farm work.
But onto the subject at hand -
You have spark. Check that the ignition timing is correct.
You have fuel. Remove the air cleaner and check that you're getting a good pump squirt when you open the throttle. Check that the choke butterfly closes all the way when you pull the choke out. You might have blocked jets. If you can get the engine to run at all, clap your hand over the air intake for a second and let the engine "clear its throat". If it now runs, bonus.
If no start, then remove the rocker cover and the distributor cap. Turn the motor over by hand until the ball's lined up with the pointer and the rotor's pointing to no.1. Try to rock the rockers of no. 6. If there's no free play in the rockers, good. Confirm that the valve timing's correct by turning the motor over a few degrees in each direction and watching what the rockers for no. 6 are doing. Both valves should be (only just) open when the ball's lined up with the pointer.
As a further check, watch the distributor rotor as you rock turn the engine back and forth by hand. The rotor should turn as soon as you move the crank in either direction. If there's significant backlash, you have timing gear troubles.
If valve timing's OK, then turn the motor over by hand at least two full revolutions. You'll get an idea of the engine's compressions by the amount of "fight" it puts up. If, when you turn the motor over, each compression stroke is accompanied by a deep wheezing sound from the engine's guts, this is good. If one or more cylinders puts up less resistance, and you can't hear the wheeze, you have badly seating valves.
Watch what the valves are doing as you turn the motor over by hand. If any valves don't open, that's bad. They're stuck, and you'll have bent pushrods. If any valves don't close, you'll have no compression at all in the affected cylinders.
Low compression in adjacent cylinders (2 and 3) and also (4 and 5) is caused by leaking or blown head gasket.
Rob
But onto the subject at hand -
You have spark. Check that the ignition timing is correct.
You have fuel. Remove the air cleaner and check that you're getting a good pump squirt when you open the throttle. Check that the choke butterfly closes all the way when you pull the choke out. You might have blocked jets. If you can get the engine to run at all, clap your hand over the air intake for a second and let the engine "clear its throat". If it now runs, bonus.
If no start, then remove the rocker cover and the distributor cap. Turn the motor over by hand until the ball's lined up with the pointer and the rotor's pointing to no.1. Try to rock the rockers of no. 6. If there's no free play in the rockers, good. Confirm that the valve timing's correct by turning the motor over a few degrees in each direction and watching what the rockers for no. 6 are doing. Both valves should be (only just) open when the ball's lined up with the pointer.
As a further check, watch the distributor rotor as you rock turn the engine back and forth by hand. The rotor should turn as soon as you move the crank in either direction. If there's significant backlash, you have timing gear troubles.
If valve timing's OK, then turn the motor over by hand at least two full revolutions. You'll get an idea of the engine's compressions by the amount of "fight" it puts up. If, when you turn the motor over, each compression stroke is accompanied by a deep wheezing sound from the engine's guts, this is good. If one or more cylinders puts up less resistance, and you can't hear the wheeze, you have badly seating valves.
Watch what the valves are doing as you turn the motor over by hand. If any valves don't open, that's bad. They're stuck, and you'll have bent pushrods. If any valves don't close, you'll have no compression at all in the affected cylinders.
Low compression in adjacent cylinders (2 and 3) and also (4 and 5) is caused by leaking or blown head gasket.
Rob
-
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:52 pm
- State: VIC
- Location: Great Western
Re: Help with Grey motor issue
Thanks fellas, all good advice. The poor old thing is too far gone to do anything with as really rusty but functional. Rusted through on the roof in a number of spots, firewall and scuttle completely rooted, floors, pillars - all the usual suspects. It is stored in a shed so won't deteriorate any further and there are no permanent modes that will make it any worse than it is IF someone wants to take it on as a project in the future. It gives me a smile to see my son roaring around in it with a straight pipe sticking out of the bonnet, makes me all nostalgic for my youth.
Anyway, back to business. Fuel is fresh, timing is good, good squirt of fuel from accelerator jet when pumped, have spark so all good there. It is really low on compression but weird that it was running fine and would start and has just stopped so suspect low compression is not the reason. I will go over the fuel system and maybe try another distributor as haven't tried that yet.
Thanks again, Al
Anyway, back to business. Fuel is fresh, timing is good, good squirt of fuel from accelerator jet when pumped, have spark so all good there. It is really low on compression but weird that it was running fine and would start and has just stopped so suspect low compression is not the reason. I will go over the fuel system and maybe try another distributor as haven't tried that yet.
Thanks again, Al
Re: Help with Grey motor issue
I think the engine's at end-of-life, and you've probably broken a piston ring (or two). It doesn't take much for a clagged engine to become terminal, and when this happens, they just don't start when cold.
Do you have a tow vehicle? You'll probably find that it'll tow-start OK, but the starter won't turn the motor over fast enough for it to fire.
Rob
Do you have a tow vehicle? You'll probably find that it'll tow-start OK, but the starter won't turn the motor over fast enough for it to fire.
Rob
Re: Help with Grey motor issue
Tim,
That's about right. I had one motor which got to the stage of not starting from cold. It had broken top rings in nearly every cylinder.
Rob
That's about right. I had one motor which got to the stage of not starting from cold. It had broken top rings in nearly every cylinder.
Rob
Re: Help with Grey motor issue
I had an issue with the braided fuel line not working properly as an earth as well as had small invisible to the eye cracks so was creating air in the fuel lines after sitting even with fuel in the bowl but you've probably got a Gerry rigged fuel tank?
You will find me lost somewhere!
Re: Help with Grey motor issue
Have you tried starting it with one of those ether based starting sprays? Even a totally stuffed motor will fire and run on spray if ignition is working. I am surprised that with fuel being squirted in by the accelerator pump it's still not firing. Are plugs sparking if taken out and rested on block while turning over? I'm with Tim on this- even the worst compression motor should fire up if you throw some fuel to ignite in the inlet as long as everything else is working. Do plugs get wet with fuel ? So many questions, so little time
Sucker for a rusty bomb
Re: Help with Grey motor issue
Says you have spark. As Brett says start you bastard down carb. If no go then back to valve and spark timing.
FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie
FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
EK van on rotisserie
-
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:52 pm
- State: VIC
- Location: Great Western
Re: Help with Grey motor issue
G'day,
Sorry for the delay in following this up. Still no good, I did pull start it the other day; it was very reluctant to start but would run ok once it spluttered a bit and I got the revs up. With less than half the pedal (half revs) it will slowly die but will rev up quite well when revved a bit harder, weird. I have stuck it in the shed to revisit in the future as more important things to do. AL
Sorry for the delay in following this up. Still no good, I did pull start it the other day; it was very reluctant to start but would run ok once it spluttered a bit and I got the revs up. With less than half the pedal (half revs) it will slowly die but will rev up quite well when revved a bit harder, weird. I have stuck it in the shed to revisit in the future as more important things to do. AL
Re: Help with Grey motor issue
Sounds like you've got crap in the idling circuit.. if you don't want to do a full strip down of the carby you might get away with removing the mixture screw and blowing through the idling circuit - or spraying carby cleaner through it
Last edited by 62ekute on Thu May 20, 2021 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.