Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

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Harv
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by Harv »

I was stupid enough to put my head under the dash, and walked away shaking my head. Some of the wiring is more than a little interesting in this thing.

a) the radio has been wired up (power, four speakers) without any form of soldering or terminals... the wires are just twisted together. It must be earthing off the mounting bolts as the chassis earth lead is swinging in the breeze.
b) the aerial mounted on the car is hooked up... but a second aerial bayonet end is hanging down below the dash. The second aerial has had a hard life... the bayonet end has touched 12V somewhere and has a chunk arc flashed out of it. Need to trace out where this runs to.
c) the glovebox light is disconnected, and hanging in the breeze. It must have arced out at some stage... the plastic bulb holder is part melted. The glovebox switch is missing, but seems to be a standard early Holden door switch. I assume the bulb holder mounts to the glovebox insert, though my insert is a reproduction... no hole. Anyone know where they mount, before I drill a random hole?
d) two thick leads (50 amp type) running from somewhere near the front of the car, under the carpet down the car centre line, and under the cargo floor. The red one has an inline fuseholder near the spare wheel, and then disappears into the drivers rear taillight. The white one disappears in the cargo area. Could have been subwoofer wiring (fully sick cuz) but no evidence of a subwoofer ever being there. Perhaps +12V supply for the trailer plug to run electric trailer brakes.
e) two factory-looking orange and blue wires running from the cargo area and coiled under the rear seat. Sleeping snakes.
f) trailer wires spliced in, then multicore pulled back into spare tyre area and covered in masking tape. Splicing done with what looks like a 240V terminal strip.
g) washer motor was cut off, and new washer motor spliced in using those "crimp the plastic shut and the blade cuts both wires" connectors :sick:

Lots of wire tracing and termination in the next few days.

The floor is pretty well ventilated - I need to fit out a heap of grommets. Drains well, but must be interesting driving through puddles.

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
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Errol62
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by Errol62 »

Hours of fun ahead..... days....
You might want to have a fire extinguisher handy by the sounds. In my youth my mate installed a banging stereo in his positive earth pommy sedan, slung under the dash and insulated the body, well so he thought. Went up in flames sitting in the car park at work one morning.


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Harv
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by Harv »

Funny you should say that... I bought an extinguisher yesterday. Need to find somewhere neat yet accessible to mount it.

I once set the HMV radio alight in the FB... at 80km/h in packed Sydney traffic. One hand on the wheel, the other hand desperately trying to throw all the flammable stuff out of the glovebox :roll:

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
EK283
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by EK283 »

Mate just pull it all out and start again !! Or at least the wires that are not needed.

Like Errol says days of fun !!!

Greg
Last edited by EK283 on Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So many cars so little time!
rosco
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by rosco »

Congrats, Harv - it will be a much better car once it gets your attention to detail - and for a very long time, some sensibility into how it is wired up.

I'm with gutting all non-factory wiring... purchase a few rolls of decent gauge "marine" (tinned) wire and start you own.. with fuse protection and correct terminations... rubber grommets and conduits... do it once, never have to go back in... plus, the confidence that "armageddon" isn't about to break loose when you can least deal with it... like Sydney traffic in peak hour..

I hate those splice terminals too... I know auto sparky sometimes use them.. and hate them to death - they are sharp, sharp enough to severe strands... who was the turkey who invented those - and probably got paid a fortune for it... can't go past termination and connectors.. my philosophy and convention.

I suspect the heavy duty cabling to the rear may have been to run some portable device.. possibly a fridge.. fit in nicely in the back of the wagon.. for a camping trip or day out on a pic-nic.... keeps fluids really well chilled... maybe it was to connect up to some other device that was subjective to voltage drop...

You would know this, and I pull tradies up on it all the time... cabling sizing.

I see reference often made to a certain "mm" size cable being used... 4 mm, 5 mm whatever... if it is automotive, the size reference "only" relates to the size of the hole that the cable will pass through - it has absolutely nothing to do with the core or strand size within.

I like to specify "B&S" when I purchase my cabling.. as in 6 B&S etc... at least then I know that the "6" relates to the cross sectional diameter of the wire content within.... we see an awful lot of this in the RV forums - and I pound down on it heavily...

People expect an automotive 6 mm lead from the engine bay to the rear of a 4WD to maintain battery voltage for use in a portable fridge - or worst, to charge an RV battery in running... it's rubbish - the cross-sectional diameter of much of this automotive wiring is probably the equivalent to just 2 B&S... and voltage drop is often more than 2v over just the length of the tow vehicle... how anyone can expect a minimum of 12v at up to 6A using this pathetic wiring results in appliances tripping out and RV batteries actually draining back to the supply in transit....

The other thing to consider - if you intend to tow and supply power to an appliance source in the RV - fuse protect at both ends... I rarely ever see people consider this.. and I implore them to provide it...
With batteries at both ends.. you have supply at both ends... any short in the line will attract feed from both batteries, or charging units...

I prefer to use resettable circuit breakers than fuses in heavy power demand wiring... they can be "tripped" and used as circuit breakers - plus, you never run out of fuses...

Again, great pic up - the car will be a credit to your labours and devotion to detail, not to mention conformity with running OEM equipment from the factory...

Looking forward to following this thread as it develops.

frats,
Rosco
ardiesse
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by ardiesse »

Harv,

The glovebox lamp goes into the "ceiling" of the glove box quite close to the driver's side, "rear", which is really stage front left, where the frieze is. The hole should look like the circuit symbol for an electric motor - a circle with two "ears". The lamp holder goes in the hole, and then a slight turn clockwise locks it in place. The lamp holder should incorporate a little "shade" so the light doesn't shine into the passengers' eyes. I think (fingers crossed) that the glovebox lamp holder is the same as the rear number plate light lampholder.

Rob
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Harv
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by Harv »

Many thanks.

Looks like the wiring down the centre of the car was for a power tailgate. It runs into the rear drivers headlight assembly "hole", then jumps into the tailgate corner... before being snipped off and dangling inside the tailgate. Thankfully no fuse in the inline fuseholder, so at least the dangling end is dead. No remnants of a power tailgate left (motor, limit switch etc), the wiring is in the wrong spot (should be on the opposite side of the car to the main wiring loom, not down the middle), and is not the correct factory colours. Just some crappy wiring someone has bodged in, then partially cut out. It will come out this evening.

One nest of snakes down, more to follow.

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
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Harv
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by Harv »

I'd like to state that I have done some dodgy things. My work is nowhere near perfect. But even this had me shaking my head.

I traced out the red wire that ran under the carpet. This is a heavy (#10AWG) wire that had been used to run a power tailgate.

It took power from the starter solenoid (neat ring terminal) and has power all the time. It ran unsupported to the inner guard. It then ran through the passenger front wheel well on the outside. No support, no clips, nothing stopping it from falling down and rubbing on the tyre. It then ran to the bottom of the front guard, where the two bolts hold the front guard onto the car body. It was run between the guard and the car body, with the guard tightened down on it to clamp it in place. No grommet, no padding. The insulation is hard and cracked... it was a wonder it did not arc. The only thing between bare copper and body is dirt. A hole was then bodgied into the sill at the A-pillar base to run the cable into the cabin. Hole looks like it was made with a screwdriver, no grommet. The wire then ran under the carpet, down the centre of the car to the cargo area. No protection as it ran past the rear seat steel edge. The wire was braided with two others, then poked out the rear quarter and then into the tailgate - no grommets. The end of the wire had been snipped off inside the tailgate, and was dangling around. How this thing has not caught fire is beyond me.

The dome light was also a surprise. Positive terminal had been busted out of the bakelite, and was swinging in the breeze. The wire was sooty from arcing. Surprised the hoodlining did not catch.

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
EK283
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by EK283 »

Lucky, maybe lottery ticket time !!!

Greg
So many cars so little time!
rosco
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by rosco »

Hi Harv,
I have worked on quite a few friends and relatives cars over many years.... I've seen some monster wiring issues... and whenever I see something like this - if the car is to be kept.... I start at the battery and check everything from there back....
Under the dash is always a "out of sight, out of mind" area.... and under mats and carpets... some real monkey business found under there.... love it when the underlay is dripping wet too...
Insulation tape - young blokes should have been banned from getting their hands on it.. I've seen large section bare leads wrapped up with tape using only two or three wraps... and the actual strands exposed through the tape.... it speaks volumes for how good that stuff is though.

The headlining was probably the biggest worry... it would have gone up... like the horn, not many know that it is permanently live - as long as the fuse is.....

As for the live lead from the solenoid.... wow - but, it would have fused... just made a bigger hole in whatever it touched. Wouldn't have done the battery much good.... but it's a direct feed from the battery at that terminal and I guess the insulation on the lead would have had sunburn blisters for much of it.

Nice to know you have found it... I'm now guessing you'll be "wire" hunting... young blokes love tapping into things to get a supply.... they'd be the first ones I'd be tracking through...

frats,
Rosco
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FJWALLY
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by FJWALLY »

Lol - sounds like my kind of wiring - I leave it to the auto- elec now
One I had to laugh at (I was crying on the inside) on my re-build ute the guy putting it back together had fed the steering column wires down the gear linkage side rather than the conveniently placed hole and empty right hand side - resulting in very stiff steering and every time I shifted into Second the horn went off - had me stumped for a while that one - had to replace the entire thing as the wires had been chopped to bits by the gear shift - :unimpresseddd:
You will find me lost somewhere!
rosco
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by rosco »

Ha Ha.. FJW - hard to sneak home late at night with a horn that heralded your arrival..

frats,
Rosco
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Harv
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by Harv »

Yesterdays find.

What do you do if your aerial is not working (say it will only find Radio National :mrgreen: )? You put another one into the guard on the opposite side of the car. This leaves you with a dead aerial. What to do with the old dead one? You leave the old bayonet connection flopping around under the dash. That leaves you with about 6' of coax cable, and the aerial gutter mount bit under the bonnet. Just stuff those down the hole between the inner and outer guards (the round hole to the back of the photo below). Of course, being a caring person you don't want the car to rust, so you apply fishoil into that cavity... the coax and gutter mount may bang around a bit, but they will never rust.


Aerial.JPG
Aerial.JPG (78.53 KiB) Viewed 611 times


Nice to have only one aerial again.

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
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Errol62
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by Errol62 »

Oh well it's got nice paint hasn't it?

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rosco
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Re: Harv's HR Holden Premier wagon

Post by rosco »

Such care to detail... fishoil... might have been a lot worse without it... at least the aerial lead is dead...... what's in the hole on the other side?
If I am not mistaken - that aerial is a gutter mounted 27 mHz CB radio mount..... we ran "pirate" for many years until licensing was finally approved...
Like so many other things, this stuff crept in from the US... Tandy started stocking it - you simply couldn't get a license for it unless you went Ham... I did a crash course in that and missed out on theory by only 4%... I got the Morse and Regulations certification... when Telecom finally got off its butt and opened up public communication channels on 27 meg... I didn't see the purpose to go back and resit the theory - so close, would have been great to have picked that one up for my collection.

Running pirate, we tended to hide or gear when any little orange Hi-Ace vans could be seen.... Telecom "RI's" (radio inspectors) you could pick when they were "tracking"... a little "lollypop" could be seen on the roof... getting beam on a transmitter..... they were making hits, but usually tracking down those who abused the frequencies.

When licensing finally came - (my license was VAU 412) all heck broke loose with rubbish and foul language the norm of the day.. the "gutless" who didn't want to put themselves at risk of prosecution started buying gear and fitting it hard-wired. They swamped the entire movement... I tired very quickly of the moronic and feeble baby snipes and foul language... you could never have the unit on if there were children in the car... I dropped out and never went back to 27 meg. We had a very good thing going for some time - even had an emergency channel (channel 11).. and there were base stations who monitored it.... sitting on the side and waiting for calls for help to come in.

The rubbish on UHF is heading much the same way today - we only use ours to call up long-haul truckies on the "road channel" (channel 40) when out with the caravan... turn it of getting near big towns and cities... we come into proximity of "kiddies corner" .... turn it back on again when we get back into the open spaces... the RV channel (channel 18).... waste of time - hardly ever hear anyone on it... and the 4WD channel (channel 15).. pretty much the same, unless you are on dirt tracks and call when about to make climbs or descents...

When our FB/EK Vic club ran with UHF - we used channel 19... it was very handy when doing club runs and tours.... of course, with the cheap mobile phone plans of today - free calls pretty much rule out UHF.. but, it is still used for "group calling"...

Apologies, Harv.... really swamped your thread this time...

frats,
Rosco
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