Lowering front end, caliper now hitting top wishbone control arm

[eKay]

Hi Folks,

Had the front end apart and decided to freshen everything up because I can. According to my engineering certificate, it was originally setup 20 years ago with lowered King Springs (HR front end - disc brakes ). Anyway, it has had some work done in that time, but info was poorly recorded. It appears to have HQ discs (11" rotors and PBR calipers).

I purchased some new springs and shocks - reordering King Springs KHFL-01,only difference is the new X5K material. Anyway, long story short, I put the new springs in and wow, 60mm drop from what was in there. Looks great but I can only drive in a straight line.

Talking with King Springs tech, we have identified that I obviously had raised springs in the car and this is most likely due to running 205/45r17 on the front. Due to the rears being larger, it didn't look out of place. Anyway, I am hoping to change out the wheels to something more inline with a daily driver in 15" wheels.

The issue with the lowered springs is now the calipers hits the top wishbone control arm. The lowered springs are going to be replaced with standards, but it looks like it still won;t clear the top w/bone.

I'm guessing grinding out a little of the wishbone is not an accepted practice. I was wondering if I went back to raised springs and bit the bullet buying something like CRS dropped spindles; does that bring the caliper down with it and do the spindles wear out the top ball joint prematurely?

How do other folk get around this??

Thanks

[FireKraka]

Hi eKay
Mate it would be handy to see a photo

Are your calipers on the front or back of the spindle and what are they HR or something else, I've never seen them hit the wishbone maybe the shock tower which you can take a little off of the lip, as I said would be interesting to see a photo please.

I run CRS drop spindles on my FC sedan and yes 60mm drop, 15 x 60 x 185 front tyres and standard HR springs

I've done a lot of miles on my sedan and have not had a problem with ball joints the CRS spindles are a pretty good product although expensive.

Neil

[gpi]

what stubs are you using?

[eKay]

Bummer, I just put the wheels back on and pushed it back into the corner of the garage. I hope to get photos later this week, when I ponder on it again.

I "believe" Ii have HQ stubs and calipers and the calipers are forward. I've read about flipping the left to right stub axles and putting calipers on the rear, but its doing my head in, I can't see that working for me. I've got a rear mounted VL rack also, not sure if that makes a difference.

Thank you for the info on the lowered CRS/Hadfield spindles. I just spoke with Rod Hadfield on the phone, he wasn't as much help as I'd hoped but it would appear that a dropped spindle would raise the caliper upwards, which makes it worse.

What I have furnished from the www, is apparently there are 4 different calipers between Girlock and PBR, cast and alloy. I'm trying to find specs now, but I did read somewhere someone referring to the PBR cast calipers as big a55 in size (no further info) and that is what I have. So I am hoping maybe a narrower caliper might exist. I just need an inch narrower on the top, back side and problem solved.

[Errol62]

Couple of additional points.

The caliper will of course go up relative to top balljoint with drop spindles.

Rear mounted rack will require you to have the calipers on the front I believe.

Cheers
Clay


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[eKay]

Looking through Hoppers Stops in Melbourne and they have an article about whats stopping your Holden, i'm sure heaps have seen this as it's been there for a while, but I haven't read it for years.

A quote from that page: 4/ HQ stubs (being same as HK/T/G) fit HR front ends, use HR steering arms, then you can fit HQ to WB calipers but watch for clearance re top control arms and having to grind a bit off the caliper brackets to fit over the steering arms. This gives you 11 inch ventilated rotors but usually in HQ pattern unless you are prepared to pay for blank rotors and then have them studded in early pattern

They don't mention a fix for the control arm and I don;t have steering arm issues, so I rang them and they said most guys just grind out some of the upper control arm. Said it "should" be fine but then the dude said, I wouldn;t do it to my car though. Dóh!

Any thoughts on grounding out some of the side of the upper wishbone? It's not what I want to do. I need to take out 3/4 inch diameter from the side I reckon.

[eKay]

I've never seen them hit the wishbone maybe the shock tower which you can take a little off of the lip

I forgot to mention, the lip of the shock tower has been trimmed previously. Cheers

[eKay]

Couple of additional points.

The caliper will of course go up relative to top balljoint with drop spindles.

Rear mounted rack will require you to have the calipers on the front I believe.

Cheers
Clay

That's what my brain was telling me looking at it all... Thanks

[FireKraka]

Hi eKay;
Mate sorry but I am not getting what is really going on here, I run almost the exact same setup on my FC Sedan and have no problems, CRS drop spindles (60mm drop), rear mounted steering rack, I run HZ/WB aluminium Girlock calipers (they were the best for the time google specs and it says this not just my BS) on the front, and I get full lock without hitting anything.

On my EK UTE again almost the same but with HR drum brake spindles with adapter plates, rear mounted rack, VP Commodore rotors and calipers, calipers front mounted, lowered springs and get full lock.

We must be missing something mate and really need to see the issue if you get a chance to take some photos it would be great.
and everybody on here is happy to help.

Regards
Neil

[eKay]

Hi eKay;
Mate sorry but I am not getting what is really going on here, I run almost the exact same setup on my FC Sedan and have no problems, CRS drop spindles (60mm drop), rear mounted steering rack, I run HZ/WB aluminium Girlock calipers (they were the best for the time google specs and it says this not just my BS) on the front, and I get full lock without hitting anything.

On my EK UTE again almost the same but with HR drum brake spindles with adapter plates, rear mounted rack, VP Commodore rotors and calipers, calipers front mounted, lowered springs and get full lock.

We must be missing something mate and really need to see the issue if you get a chance to take some photos it would be great.
and everybody on here is happy to help.

Regards
Neil

Thanks Neil,

I will get some photos up shortly. Last night I re-read through the original engineers certificate which is over 20 yrs old now. It was originally spec'd with the same alloy Girlocks (HZ) but now its running cast calipers. I wonder if the are wider. Anyway, I'll get some picks up shortly. Cheeers

[eKay]

OK, I can't post pics. It seems I need to have some public hosting thingy. I thought I could do the old drop and drag but those days seem gone.
I tried sending a PM to you Neil including a pic, but that was the same.

But on GMH - torana forum is a picture that is same. See post 10 on this http://www.gmh-torana.com.au/forums/top ... onversion/

The top part (pin/slide thing) of the caliper when turning steering in the opposite direction, hits the edge of the top control arm (wishbone) near the top ball joint.

As previously mentioned. Problem started when I put in new lowered King Springs - dropped 60mm. Centre of hub to top of guard is 245mm. Presuming standard springs are 30mm higher, raising vehicle to 275mm, still doesn't raise the vehicle enough to clear the caliper. Raising it to 300mm, lowers the caliper enough to clear under the top control arm. Clearly the springs I took out are raised.

The other thing I note is my original engineers certificate suggests the calipers were alloy Girlock from HZ, it is now carrying Cast PBR HQ. Not sure if these are slightly wider. I need 1" narrower clearance at the top pin of caliper.

Hope this helps.

[59wagon]

Hi eKay, for posting pic's, you shouldn't need a public hosting thingy. This is what works for me on my iMac computer, though I find Tapatalk easier on my phone for posting pic's.

1. Click on "Post Reply"
2. Click on "Attachments" which is below the area where you type your post
3. Click on "Add files". A screen should pop up with your computer files.
4. Find the pic you want and click on it
5. Click "Choose"
6. Your picture file will come up in a box below where you clicked on "Add files". Initially it may take a few seconds - you will see a status bar to the far right of your file. It's ready to go to the next step when the status goes from a loading bar to a tick.
7. Click in your post where you want the pic to be, then click the "Place inline" box next to you picture file then the file will appear in your post.

The system does seem to have a few bugs and I've had problems sometimes when I click on preview and then want to make a change and the pictures don't show in the post when I resubmit, so have to start again. Also, there seems to be a size limit which will show in your status section. If this happens, you need to reduce the size of your picture. Let me know if you need to know how to do this.

If you take pic's with a mobile phone, you can try downloading Tapatalk. I'm not a computer whizz (I rely on my kids to show me a lot of stuff) but after a bit of playing and a few mistakes, I found this a heaps quicker way to post pic's

Hope this helps, then someone can help fix your front end problems

Cheers,

John

[FireKraka]

eKay
I use a site called TinyPic to post photos others use tapa talk I think it is called don't use photobucket.

The cast caliper does seem to be higher than the the girlock one.
These are a couple of fairly old photos from my FC build that show the Girlock caliper, not sure if I had the drop spindles on there or not at this stage and the lowered springs are still in.
In the first photo you can just see the top wishbone and the fact that the front edge is angled from the pivot point back towards the ball joint, I would like to know if yours are like that and did you say you moved the caliper to the back if so this could also be your issue.


See if you can post the photos again or PM me and I will send you my email.
Regards
Neil

[Blacky]

I had a V6 EK a while back that had a similar problem - the rigid part of the brake hose hit the top wishbone on full lock and full droop - I just ground a bit out of the top wishbone

[eKay]

eKay
I use a site called TinyPic to post photos others use tapa talk I think it is called don't use photobucket.

The cast caliper does seem to be higher than the the girlock one.
These are a couple of fairly old photos from my FC build that show the Girlock caliper, not sure if I had the drop spindles on there or not at this stage and the lowered springs are still in.
In the first photo you can just see the top wishbone and the fact that the front edge is angled from the pivot point back towards the ball joint, I would like to know if yours are like that and did you say you moved the caliper to the back if so this could also be your issue.

See if you can post the photos again or PM me and I will send you my email.
Regards
Neil

I'm going to give the photo thing another shot, thanks to Johns instructions.

It looks like the Girlock caliper is narrower at the top pin and that could be the fix - maybe..

caliper hitting top control arm EK.JPG (440.32 KiB) Viewed 1314 times