Hand-crank for grey motor

Includes fuel system, cooling system and exhaust.

Moderators: reidy, Blacky

User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5088
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by Harv »

This is another example of where I get distracted. I have enough to keep me entertained, but have the attention span of a goldfish.

In the early days of learning about FEDS, it occurred to me that they were all missing the starter motor. This saves quite a bit of weight – about 4½ kg. The FEDs were either push started, or run up on a set of rollers. There are no rollers at drag strips anymore, and push starting is often frowned on (you would have to push start, then queue up in the staging lanes with the engine running… not great if the queue is 30 minutes long). IHRA (which sanctions my local track) are pretty blunt in their General Regulations:
Starting by towing or pushing the vehicle or using rollers that drive the wheels of the vehicle. Forbidden

More modern funny cars use a portable starter. The car is pushed or towed to the start line, then the crew pull out the electric starter which looks like a very large wood router. It locks into the crank or blower snout, and turns the motor over. Once the engine is running, the starter is removed and the car stages. This got me thinking. Could I run a remote starter on the FED? Something modern would look horrible, but industrial grey motors used to have a hand-crank option. In these setups, there was no battery. A magneto was run for ignition, and from memory the oil pressure and temperature gauges were offered as mechanical gauges. A spigot was fitted to the damper to allow hand cranking. Somewhere I have the GMH Industrial Engine catalogue with the line drawing and part numbers, but cannot lay hands on where I have stashed the catalogue.

Mebbe I could fit the hand-crank spigot to the FED damper, and use a high-torque Milwaukee rattle run to run it up. Number One Son has one of those rattle guns, and every ounce of weight is going to count on this vehicle. The IHRA rules are a bit more lenient here:
Self Starting for all sportsman categories (excluding junior dragster, modified bike and Supercharged Vehicles) will require an on-board starter motor. Mandatory
The FED will run in Modified Eliminator class, which is a sportsman category. It will be supercharged though, so perhaps some leniency here.

I started here on the how-to-build-your-own version:

Modern Motor August 1957 1.jpg
Modern Motor August 1957 1.jpg (3.6 MiB) Viewed 324 times
Modern Motor August 1957 2.jpg
Modern Motor August 1957 2.jpg (2.88 MiB) Viewed 324 times
Modern Motor August 1957 3.jpg
Modern Motor August 1957 3.jpg (2.94 MiB) Viewed 324 times

Not long ago, an old crusty damper came up for sale on eBay. The damper is not so healthy (looks like it had a puller welded onto it to remove it), but it did have a hand-crank spigot:

spigot 1.jpg
spigot 1.jpg (859.36 KiB) Viewed 324 times
spigot 2.jpg
spigot 2.jpg (951.19 KiB) Viewed 324 times
spigot 3.jpg
spigot 3.jpg (728.52 KiB) Viewed 324 times
spigot 4.jpg
spigot 4.jpg (712.4 KiB) Viewed 324 times

I suspect this is one of the original GMH industrial engine fittings. It is 1 15/32” AF.

So where to from here? I’ll keep the starter motor for now, and see how we go. If I can get the FED to run faster than 10.99 seconds, then I meet the Modified Eliminator cutoff and can play. If I need to skim some weight off the car, then I may come back here and revisit the hand-crank option. The spigot end looks workable, but will need a thread/plate to suit the Ross balancer.

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Blacky
Posts: 12291
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:58 am
State: WA
Location: up in the Perth hills

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by Blacky »

HHMMM , pulling out a crank handle in the staging lanes might get you a few looks Harv ...... :ebiggrin: :ebiggrin: forget the Milwaukee option - the handle sounds like the go 8) 8) :lol:
When you're faced with an unpleasant task that you really don't want to do, sometimes you just have to dig deep down inside and somehow find the patience to wait for someone else to do it for you.


Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5088
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by Harv »

Holden grey motor: 120 ftlb of torque,
Me, jumping on the crank handle: 200 ftlb of torque.
Number One Son's rattle gun: 1000 ftlb of torque.
Me, either throwing the crank handle or being spun inside out by the rattle gun: lots of talk :lol:

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5088
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by Harv »

Found the missing Holden Industrial Engine Parts Catalogue:

Holden Industrial Engines Parts Catalogue.jpg
Holden Industrial Engines Parts Catalogue.jpg (117.32 KiB) Viewed 278 times

As an aside, some of the grey motor parts in that catalogue are interesting. High capacity sump, radiator shroud, magneto...

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
User avatar
avm
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:57 pm
State: VIC

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by avm »

This was a most unexpected topic for me to see on this car forum. Is this a late April 1st joke, or are you seriously contemplating installing a crank handle on your FB/EK Holden?
Project ICKPA.
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5088
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by Harv »

I am seriously contemplating it.

If the IHRA rules let me, and if I need the weight loss to get the FED below the 10.99 second elapsed time class limit, then I will delete the starter motor.

The crank fitting will be a little different to the factory GMH one, but will serve the same purpose.

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
User avatar
Brett027
Posts: 2299
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:14 am
State: NSW

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by Brett027 »

I can just imagine what turning the crank would be like on your fully advanced timing hot grey motor Harv. I'm wondering if you have had the cranking experience before? Anyway, it's always good to know what plot you are hatching and subsequently delivering on. Keep those thumbs clear.....🙂
Sucker for a rusty bomb
User avatar
Errol62
Posts: 9789
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:44 pm
State: SA
Location: Adelaide

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by Errol62 »

Mum had to crank the Anglia cold school mornings. 1965....

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
User avatar
Errol62
Posts: 9789
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:44 pm
State: SA
Location: Adelaide

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by Errol62 »

Elegant and capable was Antonia Marjorie....

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5088
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by Harv »

Yep, had my share of hand cranking. Back when there was Aerostart and ether, but no Start Ya Bastard. Learned that Lister is a four-letter word.

Good thing on the FED is that the huffer lets me run low compression, and I can get a bit of a crank up before unearthing the magneto. Even better is I can use Number One Sons Milwaukee whoopie gun to turn it.

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
User avatar
Errol62
Posts: 9789
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:44 pm
State: SA
Location: Adelaide

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by Errol62 »

It’s hard to beat the handiness of the cordless gear. Air starters, what were they on?


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
User avatar
funkyscooter
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:12 am
State: NSW
Location: Sydney

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by funkyscooter »

Gotta say, there is something oddly satisfying about hand cranking an engine. Grew up on a farm with 2 Lister diesel generators for house power. Learnt to hand crank this when I was 10.
Lister.jpg
Lister.jpg (2.7 MiB) Viewed 184 times
Only had to do it if the battery went flat or if there was some sort of electrical problem in the switch box that converted the generator into a starter for the engine.
Hand crank is hanging on the wall.
Sorry to hijack the thread - but you did say Lister!
Scott
(Not so rusty) Ol' Rusty - FB/EK Sedan
User avatar
FireKraka
Posts: 2219
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:12 am
State: WA
Location: Serpentine, WA

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by FireKraka »

Apologies Harv
I went to sea when I was 17 and the ship I was on had a 2 cylinder Lister emergency air compressor, if you got the cranking wrong when you dropped the decompression cocks it would throw you into the bulkhead :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quite a few guys had also broken thumbs by not getting them out of the way :wink: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Member of WA FB/EK Car Club
Frankenstein EK V6 Ute
FB Station Wagon Project
1950's Commer Light Truck (2.5 Ton)
Blacky
Posts: 12291
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:58 am
State: WA
Location: up in the Perth hills

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by Blacky »

funkyscooter wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 7:48 am Gotta say, there is something oddly satisfying about hand cranking an engine. Grew up on a farm with 2 Lister diesel generators for house power. Learnt to hand crank this when I was 10.
Lister.jpg
Only had to do it if the battery went flat or if there was some sort of electrical problem in the switch box that converted the generator into a starter for the engine.
Hand crank is hanging on the wall.
Sorry to hijack the thread - but you did say Lister!
That's a flash setup for a farm installation - it kinda has guards over the flywheels !!!! :lol:
When you're faced with an unpleasant task that you really don't want to do, sometimes you just have to dig deep down inside and somehow find the patience to wait for someone else to do it for you.


Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5088
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Hand-crank for grey motor

Post by Harv »

FireKraka wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 9:30 am I went to sea when I was 17 and the ship I was on had a 2 cylinder Lister emergency air compressor, if you got the cranking wrong when you dropped the decompression cocks it would throw you into the bulkhead :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
They only tell young apprentices about decompression levers after watching them crank the damn thing for half an hour :lol:

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Post Reply