Seagull Grey EK 2106
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
Good work, Craig - I'm doing something similar to you at present, but the scale I'm working on is in micro-mm's... not 10th's.... building a needle valve for a small (0.74 cc) diesel engine.
I fully appreciate you wish to control the amount of oil passing over to the ventilation pipe - but, there is a reason this motor is causing more oil to flow out than would probably be the norm..... something will show up one day, and the revelation to us all will be noted.
frats,
Rosco
I fully appreciate you wish to control the amount of oil passing over to the ventilation pipe - but, there is a reason this motor is causing more oil to flow out than would probably be the norm..... something will show up one day, and the revelation to us all will be noted.
frats,
Rosco
- Craig Allardyce
- Posts: 1464
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
- State: VIC
- Location: Stratford
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
G'day Rosco,
seriously I have doubted and second guessed myself so much over this problem it's been ridiculous.
My FB hasn't had this problem but I know I haven't really flogged it at 100kph for long periods, especially towing, and over a hot summers day. The longest was to Cowra over winter. This car has been very different in that respect. My concern over the camshaft groove is gone as today I could see the pulsing of the oil either side of the brass oil feed block at the rockers.
The only two things I suspect is excess crankcase air flow pulling oil out of the breather pipe and excess oil to the top from constant high speed operation. I did a compression test the other day and that was crossed off the list too as I suspected excessive blowby.
Surely I'm not the only one that gets sick of oil leaking from the pipe??? I have started planning on a new rear main set up too. I guess I maybe just a bit fussy and want a leak free grey motor! That's not too much to ask is it?
seriously I have doubted and second guessed myself so much over this problem it's been ridiculous.
My FB hasn't had this problem but I know I haven't really flogged it at 100kph for long periods, especially towing, and over a hot summers day. The longest was to Cowra over winter. This car has been very different in that respect. My concern over the camshaft groove is gone as today I could see the pulsing of the oil either side of the brass oil feed block at the rockers.
The only two things I suspect is excess crankcase air flow pulling oil out of the breather pipe and excess oil to the top from constant high speed operation. I did a compression test the other day and that was crossed off the list too as I suspected excessive blowby.
Surely I'm not the only one that gets sick of oil leaking from the pipe??? I have started planning on a new rear main set up too. I guess I maybe just a bit fussy and want a leak free grey motor! That's not too much to ask is it?
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
Hi Craig,
Don't worry I think all the old style motors had blow by, I have a chev 283 and the thing used to spit oil out everywhere when it got a rev ! Turned out just a different brand of oil fixed the issue. I couldn't believe it the one brand I used forever just frothed up under certain conditions.
I use penrite now a lovely long lasting non frothing liquid gold Ha Ha.
Greg
Don't worry I think all the old style motors had blow by, I have a chev 283 and the thing used to spit oil out everywhere when it got a rev ! Turned out just a different brand of oil fixed the issue. I couldn't believe it the one brand I used forever just frothed up under certain conditions.
I use penrite now a lovely long lasting non frothing liquid gold Ha Ha.
Greg
So many cars so little time!
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
Hi Craig,
you'll get there..... might take a while, but you will - I have every confidence in you... and when you do, put a patent on your design - the world will be watching for a Holden grey motor which doesn't either leak, burn or blow oil....
As one old chap once said to me...."the only Holden grey motor which doesn't either leak or burn oil, but mainly both - doesn't have any in it to begin with"..
frats,
Rosco
you'll get there..... might take a while, but you will - I have every confidence in you... and when you do, put a patent on your design - the world will be watching for a Holden grey motor which doesn't either leak, burn or blow oil....
As one old chap once said to me...."the only Holden grey motor which doesn't either leak or burn oil, but mainly both - doesn't have any in it to begin with"..
frats,
Rosco
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
Forgot to add.... my miniscule needle valve assembly - bad fortune played into my hands for once..
I have been searching and searching for a suitable hardened steel rod to make a needle out of....... considering grinding down a sewing needle, or even taking to a TIG stainless rod and honing it down...
Whilst drilling a pilot hole for a 24.5 cc tin fuel tank - I broke a 0.8 mm drill bit........ screamed at myself for such stupidity in pushing the pin-vise too hard, and swore oaths about never breaking the very expensive drill bits again ..... then it dawned on me - chuck it up in the Dremel and hone it down to a perfect point on a fine oil stone.....
The brass choke I had to taper out will never mark the HSS steel of the drill bit........
Perhaps such a "find" will come your way too..... sometimes, positives come in unusual and unexpected ways......
frats,
Rosco
I have been searching and searching for a suitable hardened steel rod to make a needle out of....... considering grinding down a sewing needle, or even taking to a TIG stainless rod and honing it down...
Whilst drilling a pilot hole for a 24.5 cc tin fuel tank - I broke a 0.8 mm drill bit........ screamed at myself for such stupidity in pushing the pin-vise too hard, and swore oaths about never breaking the very expensive drill bits again ..... then it dawned on me - chuck it up in the Dremel and hone it down to a perfect point on a fine oil stone.....
The brass choke I had to taper out will never mark the HSS steel of the drill bit........
Perhaps such a "find" will come your way too..... sometimes, positives come in unusual and unexpected ways......
frats,
Rosco
- Craig Allardyce
- Posts: 1464
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
- State: VIC
- Location: Stratford
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
haha yes Rosco, the joys of broken drill bits. I have done a few lately but my bigger problem is regrinding them. I just cant see anything that small anymore, even with glasses. Chuck em in the bin and buy a new one. Frustrating to say the least. BTW I've been searching after reading about your optical points set up. I've come across this unit which will work with the Pertronix. Very small and very discreet, fully mappable with internal MAP sensor. I'm tempted for the boat and FB. What's your thoughts? Price is up there though. https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2013.htm
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
Hi Craig,
first I've seen of this unit. I understand that it requires that the centrifugal advance be locked.
I could not glean that it continues to use the points for reference - I would balk at it if it does.... best part about fitting an electronic/optronic unit is the complete removal of "wearing" componentry.
I note that it allows programming of MAP and other sensors - which would be well attuned to what will suit your purposes.
I'd like to know a bit more about its functionality and mechanics before committing an opinion.
Of course - for security purposes, discretion and secrecy afford anti-theft protection from "drive-away" crime..... one more wall of defence to emplace against these mongrels who care not one jot about heritage vehicles.
frats,
Rosco
first I've seen of this unit. I understand that it requires that the centrifugal advance be locked.
I could not glean that it continues to use the points for reference - I would balk at it if it does.... best part about fitting an electronic/optronic unit is the complete removal of "wearing" componentry.
I note that it allows programming of MAP and other sensors - which would be well attuned to what will suit your purposes.
I'd like to know a bit more about its functionality and mechanics before committing an opinion.
Of course - for security purposes, discretion and secrecy afford anti-theft protection from "drive-away" crime..... one more wall of defence to emplace against these mongrels who care not one jot about heritage vehicles.
frats,
Rosco
- Craig Allardyce
- Posts: 1464
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
- State: VIC
- Location: Stratford
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
It'll run on points, hall effect, ignition modules, and magnetic triggers. Not sure on optical trigger.
Software will run on windows 10.
Locking the advance mech is no real biggy. Vacuum advance needs to be locked or removed as well.
Software will run on windows 10.
Locking the advance mech is no real biggy. Vacuum advance needs to be locked or removed as well.
- Craig Allardyce
- Posts: 1464
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
- State: VIC
- Location: Stratford
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
I am about to burn this thing. Anyone got a match?
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
Don't you dare!
I have been down that track just so many times - I make huge threats, but always get bogged down in matters so miniscule that seem like the whole care pivots on them being "right"...
What works for me, close the door and walk away until you have given it a bit of thought - amazing how small that mountain becomes when you look at it from the larger "world"...
fingers crossed, you didn't find any matches Craig.....
frats,
Rosco
I have been down that track just so many times - I make huge threats, but always get bogged down in matters so miniscule that seem like the whole care pivots on them being "right"...
What works for me, close the door and walk away until you have given it a bit of thought - amazing how small that mountain becomes when you look at it from the larger "world"...
fingers crossed, you didn't find any matches Craig.....
frats,
Rosco
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
Red motor conversion - you know it makes sense
When you're faced with an unpleasant task that you really don't want to do, sometimes you just have to dig deep down inside and somehow find the patience to wait for someone else to do it for you.
Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
- Craig Allardyce
- Posts: 1464
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
- State: VIC
- Location: Stratford
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
Ha, nothing makes sense at the moment Blacky.
Here's the latest.
Tow boat to Winton. No oil under car at fuel stop after first 200km.
Get to Glenrowan, oil everywhere, huge puddle under car at servo. Used about a litre for that 300km.
Return trip same route same speeds and driving style. Used next to no oil, small drop of oil on ground as would be expected for a grey.
Averaged about 20mpg towing.
Compression test 140-145 Psi across all cylinders (dry).
Oil pressure 5-20 psi hot.
Crankcase pressure test 1.6 - 2.2 inches of water flat throttle accelerating through to 60mph. 3.2 at 75 mph.
Engine done 8000 mile since rebuild.
Using Penrite HPR30 (20w60).
From experience I think the crankcase pressure is a little high, the cause of which is still unknown. So today I did some more testing and revealed the following:
Engineers did things for a reason. Reversing the filler cap reduces crankcase pressure by about a third (down to about 1.8" H2O).
Some small effect in reduction of pressure on fitting an EJ breather which doesn't have the frog mouth.
As the years passed road speeds increased and problems became evident. Harv's work on the revised head gasket for high speed work is an example. I'm guessing the breather cap change on the EJ is the same. Interesting to note that the 149/179 reds retained the walking stick breather tube but got rid of the forward facing opening on the filler cap altogether. Could this be due to more increased crankcase pressure from a higher output engine (higher combustion pressures and increased volume of blowby for the breather pipe to handle)?
Now with some mods I have tested this set up and have got it down to 1" H2O flat out under full load at nearly 80mph. I used an old PCV with the guts taken out. I have had to slightly restrict the air horn to induce some flow across the breather into the air cleaner. fuel mixture was checked with oxygen sensor to ensure it wasn't running richer at full throttle.
After about 200kms driving at 50-60mph I am left with an oil drop from the rear main about the size of a 5 cent piece and possibly evidence of drop forming on the tip of the breather.
Now after discounting compression/cylinder issues I'm looking at exhaust valve guides and or muffler back pressure.
Good point to day is I have finally sorted the ignition and now I can fully map the advance curve. Now on 95 only fuel and some more tweaking with the curve and my detonation at 50 mph is almost gone. I now know the head was shaved too much by the machinist.
Not much more can be done before the Nats so this will have to do for now. Hopefully I'm narrowing it down.......hopefully.
Here's the latest.
Tow boat to Winton. No oil under car at fuel stop after first 200km.
Get to Glenrowan, oil everywhere, huge puddle under car at servo. Used about a litre for that 300km.
Return trip same route same speeds and driving style. Used next to no oil, small drop of oil on ground as would be expected for a grey.
Averaged about 20mpg towing.
Compression test 140-145 Psi across all cylinders (dry).
Oil pressure 5-20 psi hot.
Crankcase pressure test 1.6 - 2.2 inches of water flat throttle accelerating through to 60mph. 3.2 at 75 mph.
Engine done 8000 mile since rebuild.
Using Penrite HPR30 (20w60).
From experience I think the crankcase pressure is a little high, the cause of which is still unknown. So today I did some more testing and revealed the following:
Engineers did things for a reason. Reversing the filler cap reduces crankcase pressure by about a third (down to about 1.8" H2O).
Some small effect in reduction of pressure on fitting an EJ breather which doesn't have the frog mouth.
As the years passed road speeds increased and problems became evident. Harv's work on the revised head gasket for high speed work is an example. I'm guessing the breather cap change on the EJ is the same. Interesting to note that the 149/179 reds retained the walking stick breather tube but got rid of the forward facing opening on the filler cap altogether. Could this be due to more increased crankcase pressure from a higher output engine (higher combustion pressures and increased volume of blowby for the breather pipe to handle)?
Now with some mods I have tested this set up and have got it down to 1" H2O flat out under full load at nearly 80mph. I used an old PCV with the guts taken out. I have had to slightly restrict the air horn to induce some flow across the breather into the air cleaner. fuel mixture was checked with oxygen sensor to ensure it wasn't running richer at full throttle.
After about 200kms driving at 50-60mph I am left with an oil drop from the rear main about the size of a 5 cent piece and possibly evidence of drop forming on the tip of the breather.
Now after discounting compression/cylinder issues I'm looking at exhaust valve guides and or muffler back pressure.
Good point to day is I have finally sorted the ignition and now I can fully map the advance curve. Now on 95 only fuel and some more tweaking with the curve and my detonation at 50 mph is almost gone. I now know the head was shaved too much by the machinist.
Not much more can be done before the Nats so this will have to do for now. Hopefully I'm narrowing it down.......hopefully.
- Craig Allardyce
- Posts: 1464
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
- State: VIC
- Location: Stratford
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
Finished off overhaul of new diff centre for next years road run to Perth. Cannot believe the price of bearings these days! I think I just bought half of the Timken Factory shares. Feeling like I've been reamed big time.
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
Yes indeed !
Bearings are expensive for the larger variety. I have a fraud nine inch that leaked fluid from the axle seal, no problem $15 bucks. The only glitch I had to remove the bearing and there is no way you can get them off unless they are destroyed. So $145.00 later no more oil leak
Greg
Bearings are expensive for the larger variety. I have a fraud nine inch that leaked fluid from the axle seal, no problem $15 bucks. The only glitch I had to remove the bearing and there is no way you can get them off unless they are destroyed. So $145.00 later no more oil leak
Greg
So many cars so little time!
- Craig Allardyce
- Posts: 1464
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
- State: VIC
- Location: Stratford
Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106
Ha, I feel a little better now. I'm not alone!EK283 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:29 pm Yes indeed !
Bearings are expensive for the larger variety. I have a fraud nine inch that leaked fluid from the axle seal, no problem $15 bucks. The only glitch I had to remove the bearing and there is no way you can get them off unless they are destroyed. So $145.00 later no more oil leak
Greg