RUnning a little Hot... any ideas why?

[samprinci]

G'day all.

wanted to share my troubles of late, c if any one else has had a similar problem, or offer some advice????

Been having an on going problem with the ute, these last few months. It initially start when summer kicked in & things heated up, literally....Shes been running a little too hot ever since??? .

In traffic temp was fine, but once she opened up on the freeway (sitting on 100ks) temp would creep upto 215º

1st we tried new water pump & new thermostat ... to my surprise, there was no old thermostat, apparently this was common practice back in the day, to take out the standard thermostat, & have no thermostat???

No thermostat here:


new thermo:



old water pump:


new set up ready to go:



but after all that, still same thing:

Ok... next was a new recore radaitator & a Tefbar radiator filter (filter was because, when we removed the old water pump & themo housing, the block had lots of scaling, causing lots of fine sediment to float around, blocking up the old radiator...)

filter added:


but this caused another problem.. the filter neck was a little too long. causing a hard kink in the bend. worried about circulation, I had to find another house with the right bend in it



as u can c, its off an Astra


new recore



so the hose is sorted, so after all that????? well its still running a little hot, much better, but sitting on about 195º.

the filter is great. it has a centre magnet, which Im cleaning after every drive, as u can see, its picking up lots of dirt. I'm also flushing the radiator out every 3-4 drives.



I'm thinking that I'll keep doing this for a few weeks & hope that it goes away.???

love to hear any ideas???

thanks
Sam

[Cal]

I remember a red motor I had got hot on the freeway, because it had no thermostat. Something about the water flowing too fast.

There must be some sort of treatment you could put in that would clean out all the crap in one go, rather than having to flush it out all the time and running that filter

I'd say 195 would be about normal for these engines?

[samprinci]

hey Peter.. yer I heard that flushing stuff can create more harm than good??? but thats just hear-say.??? I'll look into it. thanks mate.

[oldnek]

Sam. Radiator treatment will work wonders, especially in your situation. When you flush your block make sure you disconnect both hoses, cause you don't want any of that garbage in your new radiator.
As Cal mention 195 is not to bad, others issues you may be experiencing is points could be closed a little giving slight retarded ignition timing, partially blocked muffler or you may be missing the bonnet rubbers to seal the top radiator support.

but what I have seen ample of these days is more older engines are running hotter due to fuels nowadays.
Leaded fuel designed engines ran cooler, introduction of Un-leaded and Now Ethanol blends are increasing combustion temps, with that there is no spark control in older girls, so timing and power issues are common place as well as extra fuel usage.

In a nut shell we are paying Peter to rob Paul.
Poor fuel equals, Low power and Engine ping, which leads to more retarded timing and greater engine combustion temps, and fuel usage No matter how many times you get it tuned

[Mick]

also check yor bottom radiator hose there should be a spring/wire coil in it to stop it from sucking closed, when engine is hot and held at higher revs you will see the hose collapse

[samprinci]

thanks guys:

oldnek: thanks for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply.
Can you recommend any particular brand to flush block?? Also to flush the block, is it a matter of like u said, disconnect hoses, then just pour it into block??? was thinking of replacing thermo housing, to remove 1 of the elements creating the silt.

the ute does have a little flat spot. muffler is also rather old, has a hole right near the manifold

Sorry but I dont understand your comment: "may be missing the bonnet rubbers to seal the top radiator support."... please explain?

point taken on the fuel

thanks again mate. much appreciated
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Harry186: thanks for your reply too. Its a brand new hose on bottom. only done not even 300Klms.

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can I ask a general question to all??? whats the average tepm that your standard FB EKs run at?

[Cal]

can I ask a general question to all??? whats the average tepm that your standard FB EKs run at?

Sam, as long as the temp light stays off I wouldnt have a clue

You have to be careful with a lot of these flushing products. Sometimes they flush out too good, meaning rust that hadn't dislodged and was holding something together may be flushed out...

If that makes any sense....

[Harv]

Sam,

Some things that may help:
a) The thermostat you have used is a normal one. It is possible (though not so likely) that the thermostat is restricting flow (this is why some guys like to remove them). The rumour of too high a flow causing bad cooling is a myth (because the water doesn't stay in the radiator long enough... in reality the extra flow causes more turbulence and better heart transfer i.e. higher flow gives better cooling). Triton offer a high-flow thermostat that opens at the same temp as yours (160ºF) - part number is TT2000-160.
b) Check fan belt is tight - not so much an issue at highway speeds, more relevant in traffic when the fan needs to do its work.
c) Check nothing is obstructing air flow to the radiator (unlikely, but things like driving lights, air horns etc mounted in front of the radiator don't help).
d) Check nothing is letting air slip beside/above the radiator (i.e. that you have a seal on the side panels and on the bonnet rubber flappy bit that oldnek mentioned).
e) Could be the gauge you're using is not reading right. Consider pulling out temperature sender and putting it a cup of hot water (boiling water should read 100ºC).
f) Check timing with a timing light - bad timing can make it run hot.
g) There is a product called "water wetter" that alegedly makes water run cooler... never tried it myself but may be worth a try.
h) Check location of the temperature sender for your gauge - is it in an area that flows water, or have you installed it in a deadleg like a tee-piece off the idiot light (tee-piece tappings on temperature senders will normally read incorrectly)?.

Could be worse... I wired the thermofans backwards on the EK wagon.... then wondered why the Chev decided to boil itself on it's maiden test drive

Cheers,
Harv.

[Devilrod]

I'd reverse flush the block out to start with. Or at least take it to a radiator place and get it done. I've always found and been told by radiator specialists that the right thermostat will help the car run cooler. I've seen cars that always ran hot without thermostats never get hot once the right one was fitted and also seen going up in the heat range stop overheating. I'm not sure what is the right temp for a grey but could it be that the 160 deg one be part of the problem.

Anyone know what was factory fitted?

[Mick]

Sam,
a) The thermostat you have used is a normal one. It is possible (though not so likely) that the thermostat is restricting flow (this is why some guys like to remove them). The rumour of too high a flow causing bad cooling is a myth (because the water doesn't stay in the radiator long enough... in reality the extra flow causes more turbulence and better heart transfer i.e. higher flow gives better cooling). Triton offer a high-flow thermostat that opens at the same temp as yours (160ºF) - part number is TT2000-160.

one of my many jobs was working in a radiator shop and i can guarantee it is not a myth even know a guy that did a tour of holden as part of an apprentiship where they were shown 2 test engines, one that was run with a thermostat and one without and the wear differance was amazing, as the engines are designed to run between a certain temp range the thermostat gets the engine to that temp range fast and then keeps it around that range without large variations

Sam the rubbers he is talking about is a rubber flap across the bonnet where roughly the peak of the curve in the bonnet is roughly above the radiator, which when the bonnet is closed seals any gap, i don't ever remember having one on a car so at a guess i doubt this is the prob but you never know

i'm with CAL in general i just rely on the red light

[samprinci]

WOW!!! thanks fellarz. Ok where to start. from the top:

Pete: hopefully that light never comes on
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Harv: maaaaaate !!!! thanks a million for taking the time for your detailed response.

a: its funny u mentioned the TT2000-160. I got an EJ too. it had same prob, running to hot. we installed that same thermo. seems to work well. but once you come off freeway, start sitting in traffic, same thing pops upto 195-200 too .

b: fan belt checked. seems pretty good.

c: no obstructions

d: I'll check that out

e: thats a great idea. I'll check that out too. give it a good clean

h: check that out too

"Could be worse... I wired the thermofans backwards on the EK wagon.... then wondered why the Chev decided to boil itself on it's maiden test drive "

thats not funny... well a little???
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Devilrod: when u say " going up in the heat range stop overheating" do u mean a themo that opens earlier? around 150
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Harry: with your experience in radiator shop, would u recommend getting a professional to flush block out correctly???
with red light. i thought if that comes on its too late????

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once again... thanks a million ladz, thats why I love this forum.

laterz
Sam

[Cal]

A professional flush will help, as others have mentioned. I remember an XD 351 I used to own started cooking after I'd had the engine rebuilt. All these experts were telling me it was either running too lean, needed bigger fan/radiator, etc, etc.

Took it to a radiator place and he flushed about half a kilo of filings and crap out of the engine and radiator, even though I'd flushed it myself a few times. Ran nice and cool after that.

The cock who built the engine obviously didn't take enough care....

[Devilrod]

Devilrod: when u say " going up in the heat range stop overheating" do u mean a themo that opens earlier? around 150
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nope higher as in 170, 180 etc...

[Mick]

to be flushed propperly it really needs the welsh plugs out and it will not really get rid of everything as it just continues to flake off inside the engine the tefba filter is a good thing, i had a red motor one time that i tried everything to get rid of the scale and the filter was what finally stopped the radiator from filling with crap

red light kinda is to late but iron motors are pretty ressilliant as long as you stop when the light comes on and check why yor usually pretty right

[Trev]

I had my grey motor recoed and sent to me for assembly, but before I put it together I ran water into the block and with a screw driver and wire I dug out heaps more crap from down the bottom of the water ways. This was after it was acid washed at the engine joint.
So I just wonder how effective an engine flush really is?