Changing original draglink

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Humper 1
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Changing original draglink

Post by Humper 1 »

Hi Steve here I was just wanting to know if I can use original ek drum brake front end but do away with the old unreliable drag link set up and use something like HR draglink setup. Any help would be appreciated.
postman_warren
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Re: Changing original draglink

Post by postman_warren »

have been told it can be done here are two telephone nos should be able to help you out harvey miles 0262312354/also rodney quince 08 82621154 ask for his fathers telephone no as he has done it mention my name warren the one with eh prem AL the best
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Trev
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Re: Changing original draglink

Post by Trev »

I have had the tube drag link on my HR front in my Ek so I can't see why it won't work in reverse.
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Mick
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Re: Changing original draglink

Post by Mick »

sump clearance could be an issue as the HR draglink has a step back in it, but it will go on
sometimes yor just better off shitting in yor hands and clapping

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Fishyweare
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Re: Changing original draglink

Post by Fishyweare »

Humper 1 wrote:Hi Steve here I was just wanting to know if I can use original ek drum brake front end but do away with the old unreliable drag link set up and use something like HR draglink setup. Any help would be appreciated.

just wondering if there is an update on this as want to do the same .
cheers
paul
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Craig Allardyce
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Re: Changing original draglink

Post by Craig Allardyce »

Yes you can. The front end has nothing to do with it. The steering box pitman arm and the idler are the same lengths and angles. The mounting points are the same. Steering arm lengths will not effect the position of the drag link relative to the sump. I have run a HD drum and HR disc in my car with the grey with no clearance issues. The only thing you have to ensure is that you retain the correct toe out on turns for the inside wheel i.e. the steering stops either factory mounted on the lower wishbone (Ball joint front end) or inbuilt with the king pin. The only issue you generally get is if the stops are worn or missing you'll get excessive travel on full lock and the drag link might end up touching the sump.
As you have asked I have converted a few early's with the later drag link set up which improves the steering a bit as you go from having a spring loaded drag link tube with play to nice solid ball joints.
rosco
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Re: Changing original draglink

Post by rosco »

As Craig post - straight swap.
Couple of things that I'll mention - turning circle, and this one continues to annoy me.. I virtually have less than a long wheelbase 4WD ute.
My alignment was done by Computalign (Nunawading) some 33 years back and has not been touched since.
First impressions were excellent - with a very positive steering. Had issues with one of the wishbone bushes - but once that was corrected, steering was much more precise than that of the tube/spring original.
Draglink centre section - my front end and link assembly is from a HD disc f/e vehicle - a little bit different to that of a HR, I'm told.
There weren't many of this HD variant - and probably not many around any more... most who probably have them believe they are HR.

Rare's did my front end engine mounts back in 1982 - at Brunswick. I believe they may have welded them on too far forward... not a lot - but enough to cause the draglink to rub on the sump when in full r/h lock. It got to the point that I completely cut away the sump and made up my own welding it in with a deeper tub but slightly shorter. The oil pick up had to be bent a little to compensate for this.

I no longer hear the engine rubbing on r/h lock - but know it does... there is paint wear.

As for the lock, I might get an expert to determine why I don't have much of it... I can make a U tun on a wide road - but usually have to do a three point on anything short of a dual lane from a U turn lane.

When you come to change these over - when you pull off the pitman arm.. have a really good look at the steering shaft seal - good time to change it.

Don't throw any of the old parts away - they are well worth keeping for the amount of space they take up... and one day, someone will need them...never know - it might be you....

frats,
Rosco
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Craig Allardyce
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Re: Changing original draglink

Post by Craig Allardyce »

Rosco, you may want to check the difference in spec for toe out on turn angles from FB/EK to HD/HR.
rosco
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Re: Changing original draglink

Post by rosco »

Thanks Craig,
I know Roger and Lesley have the HR front end - and theirs turns an awful lot tighter than mine. Roger was not impressed with my awful turning circle.
I do know that the steering arms go full distance to the stops - but if the toe-out has been set for HR - which I believe Computalign may have done - it would probably be the root cause of my turning circle issue.

Drag-links won't have any effect - the straight ahead in line would have been set correctly -so, it's more than likely the amount of shims applied where the issue is.

I get great mileage from both tyres and in fuel - tyre wear is very flat, so castor and camber are probably quite good.
Don't yet capiche on how to set toe-out... but expect it may have something to do with the shim combination.

frats,
Rosco
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Craig Allardyce
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Re: Changing original draglink

Post by Craig Allardyce »

Rosco forget toe in. It has little effect on toe out on turns. Turning circle will only be effected by the inside wheel steering stop. Imagine Turning a hard right hand turn at full lock. Now forget the left hand wheel, idler arm, and drag link and imagine the pitman arm connected to the right hand tie rod and steering arm only. As you would understand the inside wheel turns tighter (Ackermans principle) and hits the stop first before the outside wheel gets near its stop. So long as the steering box is centred correctly with the pitman arm it should have more than enough travel to cover the steering angles of the wheels.
Camber will have some effect. Less camber will reduce the turning effect of the wheel . If you lean a wheel to either direction it will tend to steer to the direction without having to change its straight ahead angle/direction. Camber would have little effect on the full lock toe out on turns but will in its self effect how the wheel interacts with the road whilst its rolling. Remember rolling a tyre by hand and when it got slow enough and started to lean it would instantly turn. Same goes with graders that lean their front wheels. This counteracts the forces of push grading to one side so the grader goes straight ahead.
Something sounds suss with steering arm lengths, stops. Are you indeed hitting the stops at full lock in the inside wheel?
I'll check the differences in geometry specs between the models when I get home.
rosco
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Re: Changing original draglink

Post by rosco »

Thanks Craig... I need to follow your words at the car... and it's still some 1700 km's from us (I hope it is).
I can appreciate how camber works - and the parable you refer to with road grader... same thing applies with a bicycle to some extent.

I believe I centred the pitman arm when fitting it. I also believe the steering arms hit the stops in both directions.

I continue to believe it may have something to do with the shims fitted... the chap who aligned it had to fit extra long bolts to take the extra shims... hence, I now believe he set it up for FB/EK and not HR... we'll find out when I get it re-aligned one day..

When I get home, and have settled in/cleaned everything up and stored it back in place - I'll go take some pix... I'm guessing you'll see something/s that I'm not aware of....

Thanks for your reply - and again, my humble apologies for swamping this thread....

We really will get told off one day, Craig.... perhaps we should have an open dialogue thread - where we are free to chat....

frats,
Rosco
rosco
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Re: Changing original draglink

Post by rosco »

transferred to new topic.
"HD/HR disc front end - reconditioning"
frats,
Rosco
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