paint questions for the gurus...

parisian62 · Post by **parisian62** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:31 pm

Hi everyone,

After about 2-3 years of being in epoxy urathane primer whilst the EK has been having all the rust repairs its now time to start thinking about next steps with paint.

I have been told that I should now totally remove the epoxy urathane completely and start again as the steel underneath will/may have been compromised (surface rust).

I was under the impressiosn that an epoxy urathane would well and truly seal the steel.

As you can imagine I'm not particularly keen on the idea of having to take all the epoxy urathane off and start again...anyones thoughts and or experience...?

Also has anyone mixed systems? ie 2K epoxy urathane then sprayed acrylic primer surfacer and then sprayed acrylic colour ...

Stewart

rosco · Post by **rosco** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:53 pm

Hi Stewart,
for as much as I would dearly love be the first to jump in and help you with your build - I can't....

I have zip knowledge of the product you have "mothballed" your wagon in....

Perhaps a peek at the manufacturer's website may reveal some procedure...

A trip to your supplier would also serve to back up any information which comes forward....

frats,
Rosco

parisian62 · Post by **parisian62** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:15 pm

oh drats Rosco - I was counting on you!

Yes I have the tech sheet at home which I will look at tonight. Its a PPG product.

There must be others that have been in this situation...ie stored cars in primer...

I know EK283 (Greg) also had his EK sedan sprayed in the same primer at roughly the same time as me so I will contact him too..

Any thoughts/advice from anyone gratefully received...

rosco · Post by **rosco** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:30 pm

Sorry Stewart - this is true to form for me....
when you either need me, or need my advice..... one of two things happen....
I can't contribute - or go "walkabout".....

frats,
Rosco

parisian62 · Post by **parisian62** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:49 pm

well I certainly know that's not true to form...I have seen and read pages...yes pages of info you have provided to countless people on the Forum. Don't beat yourself up over it!

Trev · Post by **Trev** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:32 pm

Hi Stewart, I sprayed the wagon in 2 pac etch primer then repaired all the rust holes, then sprayed acrylic hi fill and top coats over that.
The reason I did this is I was told that acrylic etch attracts moisture if it is not covered the same day if not the next day, how true this is I cant say, just following what I was told

.
The wagon was in the 2 pac etch for well over a year with no problems (we'll keep an eye on it over the next couple of years), Trev

.

FB MAD · Post by **FB MAD** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:46 pm

All that preparation and modern paint and primer composition Trev was probably far better than the stuff that was layed down when the cars were new 50 years ago so I'd say you'll be OK, ( comment coming from someone "ME" that knows jack shit about paint and preparation

).

king05 · Post by **king05** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:46 pm

2 pack epoxy is the best product to use it has excellent adhesion to bare steel and unlike etch and other primers it is not porous, best thing to do now is to read the paint company's technical data sheet to see what their next step is that way you know your doing it right, some company's require it to be rubbed and reapplied before you go to a high build primer or poly so it would pay to check the tech sheet !
as for the acrylic i have no idea, i've ever only used two pack products

ek61 · Post by **ek61** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:40 pm

ive always used 2k primers & high builds , seals the job great
they all should be nonporous

and ive never had any probs spraying acrylic colours over them b4

parisian62 · Post by **parisian62** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:56 pm

thanks everyone for their advice...muchas gracias!

I had a look around ozrodders and came up with this http://www.ozrodders.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=14430 in agreement with whats been said above...

Also had a look at the tech sheet...the product used was 410-48248 Epoxy Urethane Primer (PPG). It can be overcoated with

PPG Polyester Spray Filler WOW
PPG two pack acrylic urethane primer filller
PPG Polyester Body Filler
2K WOW primer

I'll ring the PPG tech line to confirm but I think I want the PPG two pack acrylic urethane primer filller....

The tech sheet says nothing about the length of time it can be left in primer. PPG tech line said the epoxy urethane primer was only OK for 6 months and after that the whole lot should be sanded back to bare metal

I wont be sanding back to bare metal...

oldnek · Post by **oldnek** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:06 pm

I would rub a area of you car that has been more so exposed to the elements, just to see the bare steel underneath, if its clean, I wouldn't be rubbing it back at all.
Just give it a good Scotch Brite to roughen the surface so the next coat can adhere.
As ek61 mentioned, 2k is not porous, so moisture shouldn't get through to the steel

2k primer surfacer will be ok with most Acrylics, I have used even the cheapy Motorspray and still comes out all right.

parisian62 · Post by **parisian62** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:58 am

that's a good idea John...will do a test rub back a small area to see what I find. Thanks for the tip.

FCCOOL · Post by **FCCOOL** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:51 am

all paint products are porous, even the latest hi techest 2k.
2k epoxy is less porous than 2k primer, 2k etch, acrylic primer and pretty much any other primer but if the car has had dew or water on it there could already be rust under the epoxy, especailly if the eoxy has chips, my uncle tells me in a shed in the dry epoxy might last 2 years exposed where normal 2k primer over etch primer might only be safe for a couple of weeks and even less for acrylic primers.
i would just blow it all off with air and give it a good clean with some prepsol and give the primer a good inspection looking for tiny bubbles or chips.
sand back any suspect tiny bubble looking spots to bare metal and look for a little dark spot on the metal, if a particular panel has a few dark spots sand that panel back to bare metal and re apply the epoxy.
idealy a strip back and re epoxy would be best for piece of mind but to save redoing the lot just give it a good inspection.
my car is in epoxy primer under 2k hs primer and cheap acrylic paint.

parisian62 · Post by **parisian62** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:52 pm

thanks for that Leon. I've rubbed back one small section and it was nice n clean - no rust.

I'm planning to do a couple check a couple of more spots as well.

FCCOOL · Post by **FCCOOL** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:52 pm

you should get those bits covered again with more epoxy so they arent exposed to the air too long