Yep, just the single gear for the cam snout. I've reused the crank gear and thrust plate, and have not have much drama with them bedding in (whines for a few kilometres, then stops). Having said that, some guys have seen a distinct mismatch between the "cam gear only" versions and their existing crank gear (see http://www.fbekholden.com/forum/viewtop ... ig#p222889).
Cheers,
Harv
Harv's meth monster project
Re: Harv's meth monster project
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: Harv's meth monster project
For the ignition, I’m intending to run a magneto. I have a rebuilt Vertex magneto (ex-speedway) that I figure on using.
The magneto was purchased by the previous owner around 1999 from Dud Lambert, South Australian speedcar driver. The magneto had been run in one of Dud’s Holden powered speedcars back in the 1960s. The magneto was reconditioned by the former owner, a mechanic, with assistance from local magneto guru Garry Modra who does a lot of Bentley, Rolls Royce, Cadillac and Packard restorations.
”Deadly” Dudley began racing speedcars in 1952 at the age of 33. Dud would tow his speedcars from Port Pirie to Rowley Park Speedway, a 400km return trip every week for decades. Dud’s vehicles included SA#34, SA#5 and the VW-powered SA#50, each of which survive today as classic speedway vehicles. Dud was one of the first speedcar competitors to run a VW engine in Australia. Whilst never a high budget competitor, Dud’s wins include placing 2nd in the 1970/1 and 4th in the 1985/86 Victorian Speedcar Championships, his latter accomplishment at the age of 67. Dud retired from (by then V6 sprint) racing after half a century of competition, in December 2003 at the age of 84. He was the reportedly the oldest liscenced speedcar driver in the world. Dud sadly passed away in 2013. Dud is pictured on page 53 of Don Loffler’s book Me and My Holden, preparing to enter the Midway Motors 1953 Holden in a local rally in Port Pirie, and in the following television footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgHdWU6qcoU
The magneto is a Scintilla Vertex, manufactured prior to1978 in Switzerland, which has been later modified by Joe Hunt Magneto in the United States. It runs fixed timing – the mechanical advance unit has been removed and replaced with a factory Scintilla locking set. This is going to make it simple to run… but a mongrel at low revs. It will have a real tendency to ping from over-advance. The other drama is that it will be harder to start. I’ll run a kill switch on the dash – earth the maggie via the switch, crank the car to full cranking speed, then fure the magneto. Kinda like a light aircraft (me and Biggles get along real well). The cap has been mislabelled with the engine firing order rather than the magneto firing order, though I have a new number set to put on.
One of the dramas of running a Repco head is that the gap between the engine block “dizzy hole” and the Repco head is small. Most of the Repco heads run a short dizzy assembly (Bosch VJU6BR) to suit. There is no way that maggie is going to fit. I’ve got a Hilborn angle drive that will let me run the maggie horizontally. Vertex recommend not to do that, but if you don't tell them, neither will I. The angle drive might (maybe) let me run the injection fuel pump off the other end (vertically) – more on the injection pump later.
I've also got a Vertex mechanical rev limiter that fits under the cap. Would really like to use it, but not sure if it will adjust out to the 6000-odd rpm redline I have in mind for this thing. It was made for industrial applications that spin waaaaay slower. Will have to install it, run it up and see.
Cheers,
Harv
The magneto was purchased by the previous owner around 1999 from Dud Lambert, South Australian speedcar driver. The magneto had been run in one of Dud’s Holden powered speedcars back in the 1960s. The magneto was reconditioned by the former owner, a mechanic, with assistance from local magneto guru Garry Modra who does a lot of Bentley, Rolls Royce, Cadillac and Packard restorations.
”Deadly” Dudley began racing speedcars in 1952 at the age of 33. Dud would tow his speedcars from Port Pirie to Rowley Park Speedway, a 400km return trip every week for decades. Dud’s vehicles included SA#34, SA#5 and the VW-powered SA#50, each of which survive today as classic speedway vehicles. Dud was one of the first speedcar competitors to run a VW engine in Australia. Whilst never a high budget competitor, Dud’s wins include placing 2nd in the 1970/1 and 4th in the 1985/86 Victorian Speedcar Championships, his latter accomplishment at the age of 67. Dud retired from (by then V6 sprint) racing after half a century of competition, in December 2003 at the age of 84. He was the reportedly the oldest liscenced speedcar driver in the world. Dud sadly passed away in 2013. Dud is pictured on page 53 of Don Loffler’s book Me and My Holden, preparing to enter the Midway Motors 1953 Holden in a local rally in Port Pirie, and in the following television footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgHdWU6qcoU
The magneto is a Scintilla Vertex, manufactured prior to1978 in Switzerland, which has been later modified by Joe Hunt Magneto in the United States. It runs fixed timing – the mechanical advance unit has been removed and replaced with a factory Scintilla locking set. This is going to make it simple to run… but a mongrel at low revs. It will have a real tendency to ping from over-advance. The other drama is that it will be harder to start. I’ll run a kill switch on the dash – earth the maggie via the switch, crank the car to full cranking speed, then fure the magneto. Kinda like a light aircraft (me and Biggles get along real well). The cap has been mislabelled with the engine firing order rather than the magneto firing order, though I have a new number set to put on.
One of the dramas of running a Repco head is that the gap between the engine block “dizzy hole” and the Repco head is small. Most of the Repco heads run a short dizzy assembly (Bosch VJU6BR) to suit. There is no way that maggie is going to fit. I’ve got a Hilborn angle drive that will let me run the maggie horizontally. Vertex recommend not to do that, but if you don't tell them, neither will I. The angle drive might (maybe) let me run the injection fuel pump off the other end (vertically) – more on the injection pump later.
I've also got a Vertex mechanical rev limiter that fits under the cap. Would really like to use it, but not sure if it will adjust out to the 6000-odd rpm redline I have in mind for this thing. It was made for industrial applications that spin waaaaay slower. Will have to install it, run it up and see.
Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: Harv's meth monster project
Managed to lay my hands on some headers for the project (with thanks Paul). They were out of something other than a car... might take a little bdy adjustment to get them to fit (pass me that hammer 
):
They are 1 5/8" x 2'7" primaries, 2" secondaries. They will be damn useful for the run-in that the motor will get, and the dyno runs. They'll also be a good template for making up a new set. I'm figuring on getting two made... a set similar to these for the street, and a set of short zoomies for the drags (similar to Eldred's Eclipse Zephyr Special).
Also managed get hold of an ally timing cover (with thank Chris). Need the cover so I can mount a fuel injection pump off the cam end. (Bullshit) artist's impression below:
Cheers,
Harv
):- Optimized-Repco headers.JPG (617 KiB) Viewed 905 times
They are 1 5/8" x 2'7" primaries, 2" secondaries. They will be damn useful for the run-in that the motor will get, and the dyno runs. They'll also be a good template for making up a new set. I'm figuring on getting two made... a set similar to these for the street, and a set of short zoomies for the drags (similar to Eldred's Eclipse Zephyr Special).
Also managed get hold of an ally timing cover (with thank Chris). Need the cover so I can mount a fuel injection pump off the cam end. (Bullshit) artist's impression below:
- Optimized-Timing cover with pump 2.JPG (801.83 KiB) Viewed 905 times
- Optimized-Timing cover with pump 1.JPG (835.77 KiB) Viewed 905 times
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: Harv's meth monster project
Finalised the bore sizing today - 83mm (157.2ci). Bore out, sleeve and machine to size by Duncan Foster Engineering.
Pistons by Special Piston Services in Victoria (they have the original HighPower dome profile).
Head gasket is custom made to suit.
Cheers,
Harv
Pistons by Special Piston Services in Victoria (they have the original HighPower dome profile).
Head gasket is custom made to suit.
Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: Harv's meth monster project
BRING . IT . ON . 
When you're faced with an unpleasant task that you really don't want to do, sometimes you just have to dig deep down inside and somehow find the patience to wait for someone else to do it for you.
Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Re: Harv's meth monster project
One hell of a rebore. Three cui per cylinder. That is 100 thou or 2.6 mm out of the walls. Way to go Harv. Even naturally aspirated performance would be pretty reasonable.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
EK van on rotisserie
Re: Harv's meth monster project
Injection for the meth monster will be by Hilborn. I would dearly, dearly love an Olbis injection set, but after a ten year hunt have given up... can't even find anyone who still owns a set, let alone will part with it.
The Hilborn injector is a model U-3, serial number 106, having three 2” throttle plates. The injector has quite a bit of history. The injection set was originally purchased on the 25th of July 1972 by Robert Brown from Glenunga (Adelaide) South Australia. Brown originally purchased the injection for installation on a Peugeot 403 engine of 1550cc. This is a 1,468 cc (80mm bore and 73mm stroke = 90ci) straight four with a crossflow hemi head. The engine produced 65 hp (48 kW) at about 5,000 rpm and 75 lb·ft (102 N·m) of torque at 2,500 rpm. To get 1550cc would mean going 90 thou over, which would be unusual (these are wet lined rather than bored so more likely to replace liner). It is unlikely to be the 1618cc Peugot 404 engine (1960-75, 66-85bhp and 97 ft. lb. @ 2,500rpm) or 504 (1796cc) engine.
Brown started in business in Adelaide as a ticket writer, providing signs for department stores and land agents. After whitegoods manufacturer, Simpson, asked him to print decorative patterns on toughened glass stove fittings, Bob closed the signwriting business and concentrated upon supplying toughened glass to Simpson. Bob sold the business to a subsidiary of the glass-makers, Pilkington-ACL. The business now operates as Pilkington Seraphic at 776 Port Road in Beverly, South Australia. Bob rose from early retirement to establish Thermax, a business in Britain to provide decorative ceramic glass to cooker manufacturers and toughened glass panels to the automotive business in the United Kingdom and Europe. In the mid-1980’s Bob once again sold a thriving business to retire.
Bob was no stranger to racing, with the Bob and Marj Brown team owning two Thermax Birranas, driven by Tony Alcock and Bob Muir in Formula Atlantic. Muir would take one of the Brown’s Birranas to 2nd place 1974 Australian Formula 2 Championship. Bob and Marj Brown took two 1973 Birrana 273s, Alcock and Muir to England to race in the 1975 Formula Atlantic. An airplane accident would kill Alcock, along with a number of other names in Formula racing. Bob and Marj also competed in the European Formula 2 Championship (in different vehicles) with Muir driving.
Bob owned two speedcars. The first of the speedcars was the Rowe/Wigzell #2 WonderCar (driven for Brown by Joe Braendler, who had recently sold his Holden) and a SESCO powered speedcar driven for Brown by Colin Hennig and originally built by Ted Bohlander. SESCO (Speed Engineering Service Company) made four-cylinder engines by cutting up small block Chevrolets (for example making a 142ci inline four from the right-hand bank of a 283ci V8). Both of Brown’s cars were painted a lime green colour and were numbered #25 and #26.
When the Rowe/Wigzell #2 WonderCar was purchased by Brown, it was running multiple carburettors. Brown purchased and fitted injectors, casting up aluminium manifolds to suit. Given the WonderCar’s Peugeot powerplant, and the fact that Brown specified a Peugot engine in his order to Hilborn, it is possible that the injection used on the WonderCar is my particular injection set, serial #106. The #2 WonderCar went from Brown to Anderson who blew up the Pug engine. It then went to Ron Gates (sans motor) who fitted a Datsun motor. It was later sold to Mitchell. I've posted quite a few photos of the Norman-blown WonderCar on my Norman thread.
After Brown’s ownership, my injection set’s whereabouts are uncertain. The injection was next known to be used on a Mitsubishi engine speedcar (SA#75) that was built by Rex Hodgson. In this format it was paired with a 300 Norman supercharger. This model of supercharger was produced between 1983 and 1985. SA#75 utilised a Mitsubishi Sirius 4G62T engine. This was a 1795cc (80.6mm bore x 88mm stroke) single overhead cam eight-valve unit in relatively stock form, taken from a turbocharged Cordia GSR (1983-89). When owned by Hodgson the #75 car was running an 80ci/rev Magnusson supercharger and the injection unit. It is believed that the Magnusson supercharger and injection were purchased as a unit from the United States, implying that the Norman supercharger and Brown’s injection were mated together by a later owner. Hodgson ran the Mitsubishi engine for only eight to ten meetings around 1985-87, as the supercharger had the tendency to melt drive belts. The car was then sold to Don Cave (from Highlander Crash Repairs in Holden Hill, South Australia), who jointly owned the unit with Colin Hennig. The car was driven by Steve Hennig and Ron Gates, with Gates driving in the early 90’s. The car was renumbered as SA#2 (the old WonderCar number) at this stage, after Rowe was contacted to relinquish the unused number. The car appears to have been still running the Magnusson at this time, as Gates remembers gears inside (the snout ended up being broken on the supercharger in any case). During this period the injection set was drilled in the middle throttle body, and an extra nozzle fitted to try to remove a top-end power issue (later found to be an electrical fault). The car had significant issues in running reliably. The Cave/Hennig partnership ended, with Cave retaining the car. The car was purchased by Max Monk (driven by Snowy White at Speedway City for a couple of runs) and subsequently sold to Rob Gilbert. The Norman and injector set were then purchased by me. Plans are to run the Hilborn injector on the meth monster, but swap out the 300 Norman for a more period-correct Type 110 (more on the Type 110 later).
The original build sheet for my injector was obtained from Hilborn, and indicates:
• The original metering valve was a Hilborn #54. The existing however is a Kinsler “AL” valve, probably a part number 3501 8-port high flow barrel valve, left hand spool rotation, bottom mount. Made from 6061-T6 aluminium, hard anodised, 10-32 threaded mounting holes. Fitted with “54” stamped (no “K”) (but Kinsler part number 3614). The original Hilborn type #54 had a .200 wide fuel ramp barrel valve spool. The metering valve had a very dodgy adapter plate used to mount it to the injector, which I will replace.
• The injector was originally installed using a F500A fuel filter with Size #8 fittings. This was missing when I bought the injector. I bought a modern (antique-looking) Enderle EN4056 fuel filter and spare screen, but have subsequently found an F500A filter. Happy days.
• A secondary bypass of Hilborn #5 (F510-5, using a bypass spring 0.016 diameter, flow .66, jet 115, 6000rpm, idle flow 0.6 at 500rpm) was installed but was absent when I got the injector. I have replaced it with a Hilborn F510 bypass valve and a .020” spring. A 0.016” wire spring is the most commonly used, however, 0.020” and 0.024” are also available. Using a thicker wire spring will give more spring tension, resulting in a richer fuel mixture at idle and low rpm operation.
• The original fuel pump was a Hilborn PG150A-0 (serial 0-10558) similar to the one currently on the unit (serial 0-176769), set up for counter clockwise rotation with methanol fuel. The current pump has not been resized as there is no dash in the serial number (e.g. 0-176769-1 would be resized to -1). The Size #0 pump is suitable for medium size engines, 200" to 360", running petrol or methanol. Kinsler indicate that #0 pumps do 685lb/h@0psi (freeflow)@2000rpm, 590lb/h@50psi@2000rpm and 1070lb/h@50psi@3500rpm with 0.720 SG fluid@60ºF, and are good for gas and alcohol on a typical 6-cylinder and unblown V8 under 400ci (400kW). Kinsler recommends -8AN hose, 7/16”ID. Check rotation (Kinsler cat 32 page 102). Should have ½” hose (-8 fittings?). A full-noise grey motor is around 4,000rpm, at which speed the Size #0 will be making about 1100lb/h. Typically, at wide open throttle, full power, an engine requires 0.5lb of fuel per horsepower every hour. Our blown grey will target 150-200hp. This will require 75-100lb/h of fuel. The pump will thus only deliver 10% of the fuel to the injectors, with the remaining being recycled back to the tank. Methanol loadings are typically 2-2.5 times petrol loadings, requiring some 200-300lb/h (i.e. pump still only loaded some 30%). It's probably a little big for the grey, and I am toying with running a smaller BL pump (the one shown above on the timing case photos), though would have to change the jetting below.
Whilst not mentioned on the data sheet, I have also purchased the following:
• A Hilborn AS-6 2-hole scoop, and three ram tubes. Not sure which one I will run yet. The scoop is nice for street use, but the straight ram tubes look very race oriented. The centre-to-centre distance (middle of each throttle body to the next one) is 68mm. Note that each of the three throttle bodies has two bolt holes to hold the ram tube on (total of 6 bolts). The bolt hole centres are 2.5” apart.
• An Enderle EN6001 secondary bypass 25lbs,
• Three 0.024” nozzles (petrol) and three 0.031” nozzles (methanol). I have a set of 0.095, 0.100, 0.105, 0.110, 0.115, 0.120, 0.125 and 0.130 main jets in an Enderle case. The jet (pill) controls the amount of fuel the engine will receive at all rpm ranges. The larger the jet size, the more fuel is allowed to return to the tank, therefore leaning out the mixture. To richen the mixture, use a smaller jet size. To lean the mixture, use a larger jet size. Drop the jet into the valve so the number is visible to you. This side of the hole has been chamfered and is the side that fuel enters. Alkydigger in the US gave me a hand to specifically size up the jetting and nozzle sizes for the meth monster project.
• Three #3AN nozzle hoses (male one end, female the other). I measured these tip-to-tip (i.e. total length including ferrule) and they measure 345mm, 385mm and 435mm. One of the original hoses has been replaced with braid, so replacing all three with new original type to make it consistent.
• Hilborn throttle return springs (HILF1122-21). Not sure if I’ll need these yet. They were originally for use on SBC Basic and Mega Power injector castings which already have provision for the spring to be installed – use on the U3 will require disassembly and modification to the casting as shown in the bottom of the photo.
• One set of nozzle baffles (biscuits).
• One shut-off valve (Enderle #8AN, Part #: EN85205).
Cheers,
Harv
The Hilborn injector is a model U-3, serial number 106, having three 2” throttle plates. The injector has quite a bit of history. The injection set was originally purchased on the 25th of July 1972 by Robert Brown from Glenunga (Adelaide) South Australia. Brown originally purchased the injection for installation on a Peugeot 403 engine of 1550cc. This is a 1,468 cc (80mm bore and 73mm stroke = 90ci) straight four with a crossflow hemi head. The engine produced 65 hp (48 kW) at about 5,000 rpm and 75 lb·ft (102 N·m) of torque at 2,500 rpm. To get 1550cc would mean going 90 thou over, which would be unusual (these are wet lined rather than bored so more likely to replace liner). It is unlikely to be the 1618cc Peugot 404 engine (1960-75, 66-85bhp and 97 ft. lb. @ 2,500rpm) or 504 (1796cc) engine.
Brown started in business in Adelaide as a ticket writer, providing signs for department stores and land agents. After whitegoods manufacturer, Simpson, asked him to print decorative patterns on toughened glass stove fittings, Bob closed the signwriting business and concentrated upon supplying toughened glass to Simpson. Bob sold the business to a subsidiary of the glass-makers, Pilkington-ACL. The business now operates as Pilkington Seraphic at 776 Port Road in Beverly, South Australia. Bob rose from early retirement to establish Thermax, a business in Britain to provide decorative ceramic glass to cooker manufacturers and toughened glass panels to the automotive business in the United Kingdom and Europe. In the mid-1980’s Bob once again sold a thriving business to retire.
Bob was no stranger to racing, with the Bob and Marj Brown team owning two Thermax Birranas, driven by Tony Alcock and Bob Muir in Formula Atlantic. Muir would take one of the Brown’s Birranas to 2nd place 1974 Australian Formula 2 Championship. Bob and Marj Brown took two 1973 Birrana 273s, Alcock and Muir to England to race in the 1975 Formula Atlantic. An airplane accident would kill Alcock, along with a number of other names in Formula racing. Bob and Marj also competed in the European Formula 2 Championship (in different vehicles) with Muir driving.
Bob owned two speedcars. The first of the speedcars was the Rowe/Wigzell #2 WonderCar (driven for Brown by Joe Braendler, who had recently sold his Holden) and a SESCO powered speedcar driven for Brown by Colin Hennig and originally built by Ted Bohlander. SESCO (Speed Engineering Service Company) made four-cylinder engines by cutting up small block Chevrolets (for example making a 142ci inline four from the right-hand bank of a 283ci V8). Both of Brown’s cars were painted a lime green colour and were numbered #25 and #26.
When the Rowe/Wigzell #2 WonderCar was purchased by Brown, it was running multiple carburettors. Brown purchased and fitted injectors, casting up aluminium manifolds to suit. Given the WonderCar’s Peugeot powerplant, and the fact that Brown specified a Peugot engine in his order to Hilborn, it is possible that the injection used on the WonderCar is my particular injection set, serial #106. The #2 WonderCar went from Brown to Anderson who blew up the Pug engine. It then went to Ron Gates (sans motor) who fitted a Datsun motor. It was later sold to Mitchell. I've posted quite a few photos of the Norman-blown WonderCar on my Norman thread.
After Brown’s ownership, my injection set’s whereabouts are uncertain. The injection was next known to be used on a Mitsubishi engine speedcar (SA#75) that was built by Rex Hodgson. In this format it was paired with a 300 Norman supercharger. This model of supercharger was produced between 1983 and 1985. SA#75 utilised a Mitsubishi Sirius 4G62T engine. This was a 1795cc (80.6mm bore x 88mm stroke) single overhead cam eight-valve unit in relatively stock form, taken from a turbocharged Cordia GSR (1983-89). When owned by Hodgson the #75 car was running an 80ci/rev Magnusson supercharger and the injection unit. It is believed that the Magnusson supercharger and injection were purchased as a unit from the United States, implying that the Norman supercharger and Brown’s injection were mated together by a later owner. Hodgson ran the Mitsubishi engine for only eight to ten meetings around 1985-87, as the supercharger had the tendency to melt drive belts. The car was then sold to Don Cave (from Highlander Crash Repairs in Holden Hill, South Australia), who jointly owned the unit with Colin Hennig. The car was driven by Steve Hennig and Ron Gates, with Gates driving in the early 90’s. The car was renumbered as SA#2 (the old WonderCar number) at this stage, after Rowe was contacted to relinquish the unused number. The car appears to have been still running the Magnusson at this time, as Gates remembers gears inside (the snout ended up being broken on the supercharger in any case). During this period the injection set was drilled in the middle throttle body, and an extra nozzle fitted to try to remove a top-end power issue (later found to be an electrical fault). The car had significant issues in running reliably. The Cave/Hennig partnership ended, with Cave retaining the car. The car was purchased by Max Monk (driven by Snowy White at Speedway City for a couple of runs) and subsequently sold to Rob Gilbert. The Norman and injector set were then purchased by me. Plans are to run the Hilborn injector on the meth monster, but swap out the 300 Norman for a more period-correct Type 110 (more on the Type 110 later).
The original build sheet for my injector was obtained from Hilborn, and indicates:
• The original metering valve was a Hilborn #54. The existing however is a Kinsler “AL” valve, probably a part number 3501 8-port high flow barrel valve, left hand spool rotation, bottom mount. Made from 6061-T6 aluminium, hard anodised, 10-32 threaded mounting holes. Fitted with “54” stamped (no “K”) (but Kinsler part number 3614). The original Hilborn type #54 had a .200 wide fuel ramp barrel valve spool. The metering valve had a very dodgy adapter plate used to mount it to the injector, which I will replace.
• The injector was originally installed using a F500A fuel filter with Size #8 fittings. This was missing when I bought the injector. I bought a modern (antique-looking) Enderle EN4056 fuel filter and spare screen, but have subsequently found an F500A filter. Happy days.
• A secondary bypass of Hilborn #5 (F510-5, using a bypass spring 0.016 diameter, flow .66, jet 115, 6000rpm, idle flow 0.6 at 500rpm) was installed but was absent when I got the injector. I have replaced it with a Hilborn F510 bypass valve and a .020” spring. A 0.016” wire spring is the most commonly used, however, 0.020” and 0.024” are also available. Using a thicker wire spring will give more spring tension, resulting in a richer fuel mixture at idle and low rpm operation.
• The original fuel pump was a Hilborn PG150A-0 (serial 0-10558) similar to the one currently on the unit (serial 0-176769), set up for counter clockwise rotation with methanol fuel. The current pump has not been resized as there is no dash in the serial number (e.g. 0-176769-1 would be resized to -1). The Size #0 pump is suitable for medium size engines, 200" to 360", running petrol or methanol. Kinsler indicate that #0 pumps do 685lb/h@0psi (freeflow)@2000rpm, 590lb/h@50psi@2000rpm and 1070lb/h@50psi@3500rpm with 0.720 SG fluid@60ºF, and are good for gas and alcohol on a typical 6-cylinder and unblown V8 under 400ci (400kW). Kinsler recommends -8AN hose, 7/16”ID. Check rotation (Kinsler cat 32 page 102). Should have ½” hose (-8 fittings?). A full-noise grey motor is around 4,000rpm, at which speed the Size #0 will be making about 1100lb/h. Typically, at wide open throttle, full power, an engine requires 0.5lb of fuel per horsepower every hour. Our blown grey will target 150-200hp. This will require 75-100lb/h of fuel. The pump will thus only deliver 10% of the fuel to the injectors, with the remaining being recycled back to the tank. Methanol loadings are typically 2-2.5 times petrol loadings, requiring some 200-300lb/h (i.e. pump still only loaded some 30%). It's probably a little big for the grey, and I am toying with running a smaller BL pump (the one shown above on the timing case photos), though would have to change the jetting below.
Whilst not mentioned on the data sheet, I have also purchased the following:
• A Hilborn AS-6 2-hole scoop, and three ram tubes. Not sure which one I will run yet. The scoop is nice for street use, but the straight ram tubes look very race oriented. The centre-to-centre distance (middle of each throttle body to the next one) is 68mm. Note that each of the three throttle bodies has two bolt holes to hold the ram tube on (total of 6 bolts). The bolt hole centres are 2.5” apart.
• An Enderle EN6001 secondary bypass 25lbs,
• Three 0.024” nozzles (petrol) and three 0.031” nozzles (methanol). I have a set of 0.095, 0.100, 0.105, 0.110, 0.115, 0.120, 0.125 and 0.130 main jets in an Enderle case. The jet (pill) controls the amount of fuel the engine will receive at all rpm ranges. The larger the jet size, the more fuel is allowed to return to the tank, therefore leaning out the mixture. To richen the mixture, use a smaller jet size. To lean the mixture, use a larger jet size. Drop the jet into the valve so the number is visible to you. This side of the hole has been chamfered and is the side that fuel enters. Alkydigger in the US gave me a hand to specifically size up the jetting and nozzle sizes for the meth monster project.
• Three #3AN nozzle hoses (male one end, female the other). I measured these tip-to-tip (i.e. total length including ferrule) and they measure 345mm, 385mm and 435mm. One of the original hoses has been replaced with braid, so replacing all three with new original type to make it consistent.
• Hilborn throttle return springs (HILF1122-21). Not sure if I’ll need these yet. They were originally for use on SBC Basic and Mega Power injector castings which already have provision for the spring to be installed – use on the U3 will require disassembly and modification to the casting as shown in the bottom of the photo.
• One set of nozzle baffles (biscuits).
• One shut-off valve (Enderle #8AN, Part #: EN85205).
Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: Harv's meth monster project
I’ve been working through the ignition system for the meth monster project. I’ve got a Vertex maggie, though was not sure I could get it to fit. I did some quick measuring off Dave’s Repco (with thanks), using my super accurate paperbark twig measuring tool. There is only 6” of clearance between the dizzy mounting deck and the bottom of the Repco inlet manifold.
The standard grey motor late-Bosch dizzy is 6.5” tall (plus a little extra room to squeeze the plug leads in), so will not fit. This is why the Repco guys recommend fitting the early grey motor Bosch dizzy (shorter cap and rotor).
There is no way that the Vertex magneto is fitting in there – it is 9” tall, albeit the one I have has an extra 1 1/16” of shaft length that could be removed… even if I did this, at 7 15/16” it would still be too tall to fit into the 6” gap.
I do however have a cunning plan. Plan A involves cutting down a Hilborn angle drive (I have a couple of these) to turn the maggie horizontal. This will require some lathe machining, but appears doable. The Hilborn angle drive is actually a tee – it has two outputs. The horizontal output will drive the maggie. I had hoped that there would be enough room on the vertical output to squeeze in the injection fuel pump. Sadly, the Hilborn angle drive will only cut down to 3.3” tall, leaving me only 2.7” to squeeze in the injection pump. The Hilborn PG150A pump is 3.5” tall, and won’t fit (the BL420 pump shown in the photos above is not much shorter). So option A works, but needs some machining and sadly won’t let me make use of the tee (I would have to mount the pump elsewhere).
Plan B involves using a Ronco angle drive. It is not a tee (single output), but does have the horizontal output I need. I have one of these on it’s way (with thanks to Fred for spotting it on Gumtree), and still have to see what is needed to cut it down to suit the grey.
Cheers,
Harv
The standard grey motor late-Bosch dizzy is 6.5” tall (plus a little extra room to squeeze the plug leads in), so will not fit. This is why the Repco guys recommend fitting the early grey motor Bosch dizzy (shorter cap and rotor).
There is no way that the Vertex magneto is fitting in there – it is 9” tall, albeit the one I have has an extra 1 1/16” of shaft length that could be removed… even if I did this, at 7 15/16” it would still be too tall to fit into the 6” gap.
I do however have a cunning plan. Plan A involves cutting down a Hilborn angle drive (I have a couple of these) to turn the maggie horizontal. This will require some lathe machining, but appears doable. The Hilborn angle drive is actually a tee – it has two outputs. The horizontal output will drive the maggie. I had hoped that there would be enough room on the vertical output to squeeze in the injection fuel pump. Sadly, the Hilborn angle drive will only cut down to 3.3” tall, leaving me only 2.7” to squeeze in the injection pump. The Hilborn PG150A pump is 3.5” tall, and won’t fit (the BL420 pump shown in the photos above is not much shorter). So option A works, but needs some machining and sadly won’t let me make use of the tee (I would have to mount the pump elsewhere).
Plan B involves using a Ronco angle drive. It is not a tee (single output), but does have the horizontal output I need. I have one of these on it’s way (with thanks to Fred for spotting it on Gumtree), and still have to see what is needed to cut it down to suit the grey.
Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: Harv's meth monster project
Trying to tie-down which grey block to choose for the meth-monster project. Some research shows that late in the EK run (and then onwards into the EJ run) the greys got heavier crank bearing caps, better timing cover/front plate sealing, and the distributor gear squirter hole. So the task was to sort through the graveyard, and see if I had a late EK or EJ block.
After navigating the spooders and 40-odd degree heat, it looks like I have:
L545167 (an FC engine). This is my grey motor test mule.
B248905. Engine seized, no head. A mid-run EK engine.
B264744. Engine seized. An EK engine from about 2/3 of the way through the run.
J37191. Engine seized. An EJ block.
J110535. An EJ block. No crank.
Looks like I’ll use the J37191 block. The seizing doesn’t matter too much as the engine will be sleeved.
Need to hunt up the bloke doing the Repco head repro and see where he is up to.
Cheers,
Harv
After navigating the spooders and 40-odd degree heat, it looks like I have:
L545167 (an FC engine). This is my grey motor test mule.
B248905. Engine seized, no head. A mid-run EK engine.
B264744. Engine seized. An EK engine from about 2/3 of the way through the run.
J37191. Engine seized. An EJ block.
J110535. An EJ block. No crank.
Looks like I’ll use the J37191 block. The seizing doesn’t matter too much as the engine will be sleeved.
Need to hunt up the bloke doing the Repco head repro and see where he is up to.
Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: Harv's meth monster project
Good to see you’re still moving forward on this Harv
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
EK van on rotisserie
-
thebrotherj
- Posts: 660
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:09 pm
- State: NSW
- Location: Sydney
Re: Harv's meth monster project
Ditto. Keep us posted!Errol62 wrote:Good to see you’re still moving forward on this Harv
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: Harv's meth monster project
Harv,
After I've assembled the EJ motor I'm working on, rewired one particular VRA meter, tested one Bosch and a couple of Lucas generators, I might stick my hand up for a "grey-motor-unseizing" project.
Rob
After I've assembled the EJ motor I'm working on, rewired one particular VRA meter, tested one Bosch and a couple of Lucas generators, I might stick my hand up for a "grey-motor-unseizing" project.
Rob
Re: Harv's meth monster project
I really have to stop letting the magic smoke out of things
.I bought most of the grey motors from a gentleman locally, who was moving house. They were advertised as having been stored under cover. Not very impressed when I went to pick them up... all sitting out in the rain. None of them would turn over. I was told if I didn''t like it the scrap guy was showing up that afternoon, and he would sell them to Sims. I bit my lip, dragged them home, put some oil down the bores and covered them up. They are mobile (sitting on engine cradles).
I'm confident that the oil-down-the-bores has done nothing to free them up (made me feel good at the time though). A study done in the US found that one of the most effective penetrants was a 50/50 acetone and ATF mixture (far better than Gibbs, WD40, Marvel Mystery Oil etc). I've bought some acetone, and am thinking about giving each of the blocks a dose. If nothing else the acetone might scare off some of the spooders.
Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: Harv's meth monster project
Hey Harv
Have you tried (INOX from Autobarn - not sure about Repco etc) ?
I have been using that a lot on stubborn stuff and it is far better than the usual go to's. It smells like it could have acetone mixed in with it and the residue is nice and thick
Cheers
Dave
Have you tried (INOX from Autobarn - not sure about Repco etc) ?
I have been using that a lot on stubborn stuff and it is far better than the usual go to's. It smells like it could have acetone mixed in with it and the residue is nice and thick
Cheers
Dave
Re: Harv's meth monster project
Haven't tried the INOX MX3. The datasheet for it says it has >5% of a "secret ketone"... this is probably acetone.
The tests I was thinking of were in the April/May 2007 edition of the Machinist's Workshop magazine, where they tested penetrants for break out torque on "scientifically" rusted nuts.
No penetrant: 516 pounds
WD-40: 238 pounds
PB Blaster: 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench: 127 pounds
Kano Kroil: 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix: 53 pounds
The no-penetrant breakout load on the siezed grey motors is "greater than one hefty bugger swinging off the crank with 6' of boiler tube"... don't ask
Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.