Leroy the EK Ute

Post photos of your pride and joy, or updates on your rebuild!

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thebrotherj
Posts: 171
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State: NSW
Location: Sydney

Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by thebrotherj » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:33 pm

Harv wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:45 am
I was looking at the horn button, and noticed the PVC tape applied to the bracket under the terminals. This is a smart move - very easy for the button to flex over time, and make one of the terminals ground out on the metal bracket. The tape will help stop that. Its the small details like that that make a difference over the next ten years of driving.

Cheers,
Harv
yeah I was looking at that thinking if it can happen... it probably will!

it's not my first time at the rodeo when it comes to making mistakes like that

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thebrotherj
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Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by thebrotherj » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:07 pm

This weekend I sorted out the RH fender as best I could. Keeping in mind I’m not a panel beater at all, my budget is pretty tight and my brief is to retain Leroy’s workhorse ‘character’... so it’s not pretty, but it’s tidy.
Filled some holes, saved a previous rust repair at the bottom, filled some scratches with hi-fill and painted.

Image

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Spent some time getting panel fit as best possible. Every panel is a little bent... Also replaced a few cross threaded captive nuts in both fender and subframe wth Riv-nuts which now sport M6/10mm head bolts.

Image

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Bonnet’s off now too. It will cop some fresh paint, but may not be going back on any time soon: I think the engine & trans need to come out.

Discovered that my clutch fork/slave issues are due to a very wobbly clutch fork pivot pin. The current situation has cocked the slave piston (I think) and is leaking brake fluid. Add to that pretty heavy rear main & timing case seal leaks, a decent clutch shudder and quite low compression... I figure I better whip it all out for some attention. I have another complete driveline from The HOF (my old sedan) so I’m gonna make one good complete drive unit from the two and maybe make a tweak or two along the way.

Shame, cos my original plan was to register it and then turn my attention to the driveline down the track a little, but it won’t pass Blue Slip inspection here in NSW the way it is.

What’s that saying about best laid plans?...



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In the Shed
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Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by In the Shed » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:33 pm

Hey Brother,
You may not be a panel beater but your having a go and achieving some tidy results. It is only through practice, reading up, learning off others (incl this forum) that you improve your earlier efforts or give things a go in the first place. So keep at it. Always interested to see what you get up to on this project and how I can learn new things along the way. Thanks

Regards
Stephen
A day in the shed beats a day at work!

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Errol62
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Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by Errol62 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:00 pm

That rear main seal will be the challenge for rego as long as she's not smoky J. Got a few slave cylinders here if required. If the pivot pin thread is buggered you might need to swap bell housings. New clutch, seals, gaskets and paint. Anything more =$.
Cheers
Clay


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ardiesse
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Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by ardiesse » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:00 am

Joe,

The wobbly clutch fork pivot ball problem may be -
-it's just loose.
-the thread on the pivot ball stud's stripped, or
-the thread in the throwout bearing slide/input shaft retaining housing is stripped.

Either way you won't need a new gearbox case, but the gearbox will have to come out.

The oil leaks are a more serious concern. In my time of getting old Holdens blue-slipped, it has been useful to take the workshop manual along. Because if the garage doesn't have much experience with old Holdens, they always want to fail the car because of oil leaks at the timing case oil seal/rear main bearing oil seal/front of gearbox/transverse selector shaft oil seal/rear extension housing oil seal/diff pinion oil seal. And in all these places, the manual says "An occasional drop of oil is normal and does not warrant further attention."

Cure the easy oil leaks first. How's your oil filler cap gasket? If your oil filler cap is loose, it'll leak oil, which then drips off the motor at the bottom of the bellhousing, mimicking a leaking rocker cover, pushrod cover or rear main bearing oil seal.
Oil filler cap gasket: 2.3" OD, 1.6"ID (a 1-1/4" socket is just about perfect), cut two pieces from 2.5 mm cork gasket sheet.

To check the timing case oil seal, wipe the bottom of the timing cover clean under the seal, then run the motor for a few minutes. Run your finger under the timing gear cover. If your finger's dry, the leak's elsewhere, but if your finger comes up oily, the timing case oil seal needs replacing. You've got the grille off, so replacing the timing case oil seal isn't that major a job. Check that the timing cover bolts are tight anyway.

Do the "newspaper test" on your rear main bearing oil seal, after degreasing the engine and gearbox (and maybe even replacing the rocker cover and sideplate gaskets). How fast does it leak? All it has to do is not leak (too much - see note above) while it's being inspected.

Rob

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thebrotherj
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Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by thebrotherj » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:54 am

Errol62 wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:00 pm
That rear main seal will be the challenge for rego as long as she's not smoky J. Got a few slave cylinders here if required. If the pivot pin thread is buggered you might need to swap bell housings. New clutch, seals, gaskets and paint. Anything more =$.
Cheers
Clay


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Yeah that's exactly it. I'm not 100% certain that the ute will be running a Grey & crashbox in the long term, so I'm gonna do my best with what I've got for now. Luckliy, I have 2 pretty good motors and 3 gearboxes to work with.

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Harv
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Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by Harv » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:32 am

ardiesse wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:00 am
Because if the garage doesn't have much experience with old Holdens, they always want to fail the car because of oil leaks at the timing case oil seal/rear main bearing oil seal/front of gearbox/transverse selector shaft oil seal/rear extension housing oil seal/diff pinion oil seal.
Had a garage think that the FB should fail for the rear main leak. Their tune changed a bit when I explained the rear main had been replaced less than a month ago. If there aint no oil under it, there aint no oil in it :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Harv
Building an EK wagon (327 chev, TH350, Commodore diff/wheels/brakes, NSW rego), driving an original FB sedan, rebuilding an EK ute for Number 1 Daughter.

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thebrotherj
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Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by thebrotherj » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:30 pm

ardiesse wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:00 am
Joe,

The wobbly clutch fork pivot ball problem may be -
-it's just loose.
-the thread on the pivot ball stud's stripped, or
-the thread in the throwout bearing slide/input shaft retaining housing is stripped.

Either way you won't need a new gearbox case, but the gearbox will have to come out.

The oil leaks are a more serious concern. In my time of getting old Holdens blue-slipped, it has been useful to take the workshop manual along. Because if the garage doesn't have much experience with old Holdens, they always want to fail the car because of oil leaks at the timing case oil seal/rear main bearing oil seal/front of gearbox/transverse selector shaft oil seal/rear extension housing oil seal/diff pinion oil seal. And in all these places, the manual says "An occasional drop of oil is normal and does not warrant further attention."

Cure the easy oil leaks first. How's your oil filler cap gasket? If your oil filler cap is loose, it'll leak oil, which then drips off the motor at the bottom of the bellhousing, mimicking a leaking rocker cover, pushrod cover or rear main bearing oil seal.
Oil filler cap gasket: 2.3" OD, 1.6"ID (a 1-1/4" socket is just about perfect), cut two pieces from 2.5 mm cork gasket sheet.

To check the timing case oil seal, wipe the bottom of the timing cover clean under the seal, then run the motor for a few minutes. Run your finger under the timing gear cover. If your finger's dry, the leak's elsewhere, but if your finger comes up oily, the timing case oil seal needs replacing. You've got the grille off, so replacing the timing case oil seal isn't that major a job. Check that the timing cover bolts are tight anyway.

Do the "newspaper test" on your rear main bearing oil seal, after degreasing the engine and gearbox (and maybe even replacing the rocker cover and sideplate gaskets). How fast does it leak? All it has to do is not leak (too much - see note above) while it's being inspected.

Rob
Thanks for all this Rob!

Indeed, whatever's up with the pivot pin and the very out-of-whack clutch fork, the box is coming out.

I spent the last few weekends diagnosing the leaks properly. Flushed engine oil (just using oil, not additives) and a big old degrease then ran the car up and down the back lane a bunch of times to see what gives.
Completely dry down to the sump gasket. No smoke out the exhaust and no crazy blow by from the tube or cap.
Oil pressure switch slow leak.
Timing case seal so bad it runs back under the sump and drips on the drag link! More of a waterfall than a leak.
Rear main stayed dry until I turned the car off then it dumped a puddle. Since then, it now drips reguarly while running, takes a while to stop when it's shut down.

My 'Blue Slip Guy' (every early Holden owner in NSW has one, right?) is sympathetic to the vagaries of early Holden drips and drops, but I can already hear the Exxon Valdez jokes he'd be making if I showed up with this thing. So being as the bonnet's off, rad support and grille yet to go back in, I figure I'm gonna lift the driveline in one hit and get to work on the lot. Beats separating the box from the motor in situ I say.

The Grey from my old sedan looks to have had major attention (if not a complete overhaul) shortly before it was decommissioned back in 1999. I've kept it oiled and turn it over regularly since I got it in 2012, will set up a test rig and comp test both motors out of the car and then partly pull down the better one for closer inspection. I already have a gasket set in my stock. I also have three crashboxes to work with. Feeling optimistic that I'll get a decent driveline together for minimal $$ :thumbsup:

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thebrotherj
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Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by thebrotherj » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:48 pm

Harv wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:32 am
ardiesse wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:00 am
Because if the garage doesn't have much experience with old Holdens, they always want to fail the car because of oil leaks at the timing case oil seal/rear main bearing oil seal/front of gearbox/transverse selector shaft oil seal/rear extension housing oil seal/diff pinion oil seal.
Had a garage think that the FB should fail for the rear main leak. Their tune changed a bit when I explained the rear main had been replaced less than a month ago. If there aint no oil under it, there aint no oil in it :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Harv
I did a headgasket on my old Parts Interpreter's FJ and when he presented it for Pink Slip at his local, they were trying to fail it for having no reverse lights. He had to produce an original wiring diagram to shut them up :roll:

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Errol62
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Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by Errol62 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:59 pm

Good plan. Hope you can get away with a rattle can overhaul on the spare donk. If you need to do the rear main and it’s got good comp it’d be tempting to look at the bearings.


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Harv
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Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by Harv » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:36 pm

thebrotherj wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:48 pm
I did a headgasket on my old Parts Interpreter's FJ and when he presented it for Pink Slip at his local, they were trying to fail it for having no reverse lights. He had to produce an original wiring diagram to shut them up :roll:
No reverse lights, only one brake light, no indicators, no seat belts, no demister (no heater for that matter)... rego guy must have had a field day. Gotta love a humpy 8)

Cheers,
Harv
Building an EK wagon (327 chev, TH350, Commodore diff/wheels/brakes, NSW rego), driving an original FB sedan, rebuilding an EK ute for Number 1 Daughter.

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thebrotherj
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Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by thebrotherj » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:45 pm

Harv wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:36 pm
thebrotherj wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:48 pm
I did a headgasket on my old Parts Interpreter's FJ and when he presented it for Pink Slip at his local, they were trying to fail it for having no reverse lights. He had to produce an original wiring diagram to shut them up :roll:
No reverse lights, only one brake light, no indicators, no seat belts, no demister (no heater for that matter)... rego guy must have had a field day. Gotta love a humpy 8)

Cheers,
Harv
and he couldn't care less about the rear main leak! hahahaha

ardiesse
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:57 am
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Location: Sydney

Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by ardiesse » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:36 pm

thebrotherj wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:30 pm


Thanks for all this Rob!

Timing case seal so bad it runs back under the sump and drips on the drag link! More of a waterfall than a leak.
Rear main stayed dry until I turned the car off then it dumped a puddle. Since then, it now drips reguarly while running, takes a while to stop when it's shut down.
Joe,

The oil leak from the front of the motor sounds to me like it's leaking from between the front engine mount plate and the block/front main bearing cap. If it was your timing case oil seal alone, you'd have oil pooling up on your front engine mount plate and saturating the front engine mount.

One of the guys in the humpy club bought an FJ, and wondered why there was a rag jammed tight in between the front engine mount plate and the sump. It was the oil leak soaker-upper.
One of my colleagues told me how he adapted a scone tray to fit his Beetle. Said he needed to use the right grade kitty litter the day he took the car for pink slip inspections.
Last time I took my humpy for a rego inspection the mechanic said, "I'm not too happy about the oil leaks." And I said, "the car's a 67-year-old Holden. What were you expecting?" He wanted me to replace the rocker cover gasket and sideplate gasket. I told him that neither of those was leaking enough to warrant replacement, instead, it was the oil filler cap gasket.
I got an HD blue-slipped in 2001, and the guy who inspected it failed me because you could take the ignition switch out of the lock with the ignition on. Didn't take too well to me trying to explain that this was how the early Holden ignition switch is designed. He wanted to see the owner's manual, and then was really impressed when I produced it.

I've just finished another grey motor rebuild. I spent a good hour at work with a press and a straightedge making the front engine mount plate flat. And installing the rear main bearing oil seal was a painful business.

Rob

ardiesse
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Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by ardiesse » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:23 pm

Joe,

One other thing: How badly worn are your exhaust valve guides? I remember Craig A.'s elegant troubleshoot of a new motor with chronic oil leaks, traced back to too much exhaust valve to guide clearance.

If you're up for some fun detective work, it shouldn't be too hard to fake a water manometer (water in a U-shape of clear PVC tube) and measure your crankcase pressure when the engine's running.

Rob

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thebrotherj
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Re: Leroy the EK Ute

Post by thebrotherj » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:00 pm

ardiesse wrote: The oil leak from the front of the motor sounds to me like it's leaking from between the front engine mount plate and the block/front main bearing cap. If it was your timing case oil seal alone, you'd have oil pooling up on your front engine mount plate and saturating the front engine mount.

I've just finished another grey motor rebuild. I spent a good hour at work with a press and a straightedge making the front engine mount plate flat. And installing the rear main bearing oil seal was a painful business.

Rob
you’re absolutely right Rob, my (heavy) leak up the front is indeed from that front engine plate, not the timing case seal. I didn’t look so closely at that one once I was convinced my rear main was heavier than acceptable... thanks for calling it!

I’ve noted your battles also. I’m very familiar with straightening all sorts of pressed steel components and peening warped bolt holes in the name of good sealing, so I’ll approach this whole next episode with patience.

The potential donor motor I have looks very tidy compared to Leroy’s so all eyes are on that one right now... watch this space.


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