Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post photos of your pride and joy, or updates on your rebuild!

Moderators: reidy, Thommo, Blacky, SunnyTim

User avatar
Craig Allardyce
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
State: VIC
Location: Stratford

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Craig Allardyce » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:31 pm

If you want exact dimensions you'll have to wait till I get back from work next week (Wed).
If someone can get you the main tunnel size I know that the seal area on the tool is .002" smaller in diameter.

User avatar
Harv
Posts: 2200
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NOT ENTERED
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Harv » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:13 pm

ardiesse wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:25 pm
Craig,

Could I ask a favour, then -
What are the diameters of the tool (both the bearing tunnel section and the seal-setting section)?
It'd be easier to reverse-engineer the tool than try to scrounge one up.

Thanks,

Rob
I think I've got a spare one if you want one Rob (don't ask how I ended up with two :oops: )?

Cheers,
Harv
Building an EK wagon (327 chev, TH350, Commodore diff/wheels/brakes, NSW rego), driving an original FB sedan, rebuilding an EK ute for Number 1 Daughter.

User avatar
Craig Allardyce
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
State: VIC
Location: Stratford

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Craig Allardyce » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:56 pm

Craig Allardyce wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:31 pm
If you want exact dimensions you'll have to wait till I get back from work next week (Wed).
If someone can get you the main tunnel size I know that the seal area on the tool is .002" smaller in diameter.
Please disregard my post.......I was way out. The difference is about .030" Not sure what I was thinking with that lol

User avatar
Craig Allardyce
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
State: VIC
Location: Stratford

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Craig Allardyce » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:17 pm

Happy happy days today after a big discovery. Decided to do some tidy up work and replace the timing cover seal and in the process fixed a long standing problem with annoying vibrations in the engine at differing rpms (2000 & 3000). When I first used one of these so called replacement balancers I was suspect on how they could suppress crankshaft vibration in a different engine considering they are a Red motor item essentially. Well my suspicions were well founded as I fitted an original style balancer for a grey back on this engine and now all, and I mean all vibrations are gone.
I weighed both balancers and the Powerbond item is 200 grams lighter. I also reckon that the movable mass of the balancer is a lot larger on the Grey balancer. Different cranks, piston and rod weights, number of main bearing supports, flywheel weights, power outputs and BMEP's between both engines would produce different harmonic and torsional vibration frequencies that would require different balancers. In my opinion I would urge anyone who has one of these Powerbond blalancers fitted to grey to remove it and fit an original item. I also suspect now after all this time that this is what caused the accelerated wear and noise with the original billet steel timing gear that I fitted. Vibrations can cause so much untold damage. Glad I caught now before the WA trip!
Pic_0814_157.jpg
Pic_0814_157.jpg (85.72 KiB) Viewed 529 times
Pic_0814_158.jpg
Pic_0814_158.jpg (82.4 KiB) Viewed 529 times
Pic_0814_159.jpg
Pic_0814_159.jpg (58.41 KiB) Viewed 529 times

ardiesse
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:57 am
State: NSW
Location: Sydney

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by ardiesse » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:30 pm

Craig,

You've confirmed my suspicions about aftermarket harmonic balancers.
There was a discussion on this topic over at FE/FC a couple of years back:
http://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=24800.0
If the link doesn't work, the thread's called "Harmonic Balancer", and it's on page 9 of "General Technical".

Rob

User avatar
Harv
Posts: 2200
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NOT ENTERED
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Harv » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:34 pm

I found a similar thing on the FB - the red motor balancer had a lot of wobble (I figured it was buggered, despite being fairly new). The Ross balancer that I fitted has a lot more mass, and zero wobble.

Cheers,
Harv
Building an EK wagon (327 chev, TH350, Commodore diff/wheels/brakes, NSW rego), driving an original FB sedan, rebuilding an EK ute for Number 1 Daughter.

User avatar
Blacky
Posts: 7437
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:58 am
State: WA
Location: up in the Perth hills

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Blacky » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:17 pm

maybe thats why I cant get the ute to stop pissing oil out of the timing cover ....... :?
There are two golden rules for success -
1) Never tell everything you know


Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Member of Cranksters Rod and Kustom Club

User avatar
Craig Allardyce
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
State: VIC
Location: Stratford

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Craig Allardyce » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:43 pm

Harv wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:34 pm
I found a similar thing on the FB - the red motor balancer had a lot of wobble (I figured it was buggered, despite being fairly new). The Ross balancer that I fitted has a lot more mass, and zero wobble.

Cheers,
Harv
Thanks Andrew. I'm working on finding a manufacturer that will rebuild an original item. When I get home I'll be stripping a spare one down to see how its constructed with the rivets. I have one mob indcate that they will repair them depending on how the rivets go through the guts of the balancer.

User avatar
Craig Allardyce
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
State: VIC
Location: Stratford

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Craig Allardyce » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:45 pm

Blacky wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:17 pm
maybe thats why I cant get the ute to stop pissing oil out of the timing cover ....... :?
Hope you haven't forgot the slinger blacky??? I've also found that tiny hole in the cam squirter is not so tiny when you start the engine with the cover off! Instant mess at the turn of the key....and lots of it!

User avatar
Blacky
Posts: 7437
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:58 am
State: WA
Location: up in the Perth hills

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Blacky » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:59 pm

Craig Allardyce wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:45 pm
Blacky wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:17 pm
maybe thats why I cant get the ute to stop pissing oil out of the timing cover ....... :?
Hope you haven't forgot the slinger blacky???
Starting to wonder - the "mechanic" who serviced the ute before Renmark replaced the timing cover seal to stop the leak but in all fairness if he never removed the timing cover he would not have noticed the missing slinger. I want to change the cam for a milder one so will check then - sometime before the next nationals - probably in late May 2018 :lol: :lol: :lol:
There are two golden rules for success -
1) Never tell everything you know


Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Member of Cranksters Rod and Kustom Club

User avatar
Craig Allardyce
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
State: VIC
Location: Stratford

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Craig Allardyce » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:55 pm

Blacky wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:59 pm
Craig Allardyce wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:45 pm
Blacky wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:17 pm
maybe thats why I cant get the ute to stop pissing oil out of the timing cover ....... :?
Hope you haven't forgot the slinger blacky???
Starting to wonder - the "mechanic" who serviced the ute before Renmark replaced the timing cover seal to stop the leak but in all fairness if he never removed the timing cover he would not have noticed the missing slinger. I want to change the cam for a milder one so will check then - sometime before the next nationals - probably in late May 2018 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh well, not far for you if you have to tow it there......it is an EK isn't it lol :tongue:

User avatar
Craig Allardyce
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
State: VIC
Location: Stratford

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Craig Allardyce » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:05 pm

ardiesse wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:30 pm
Craig,

You've confirmed my suspicions about aftermarket harmonic balancers.
There was a discussion on this topic over at FE/FC a couple of years back:
http://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=24800.0
If the link doesn't work, the thread's called "Harmonic Balancer", and it's on page 9 of "General Technical".

Rob
Thanks too Rob for this link.

User avatar
Craig Allardyce
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
State: VIC
Location: Stratford

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Craig Allardyce » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:16 pm

Stripped down a balancer and compared weights of the outer ring. The grey is 400grams heavier than the new type! How the can say this new type is a direct replacement is beyond me. It's almost liable misrepresentation.
Managed to pry out one rubber complete for some measurements.
Pic_0823_160.jpg
Pic_0823_160.jpg (78.54 KiB) Viewed 405 times
Pic_0824_161.jpg
Pic_0824_161.jpg (75.42 KiB) Viewed 380 times

User avatar
Blacky
Posts: 7437
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:58 am
State: WA
Location: up in the Perth hills

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Blacky » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:23 pm

any developments on this Craig ? one of our members is having his motor rebuilt now and I was talking to him about this issue.
There are two golden rules for success -
1) Never tell everything you know


Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
Member of Cranksters Rod and Kustom Club

User avatar
Craig Allardyce
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm
State: VIC
Location: Stratford

Re: Seagull Grey EK 2106

Post by Craig Allardyce » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:57 pm

Will be slow going this little project mate. Have sourced info on the right silicon but now have to look at making a pouring die. I've got an idea with assembling the unit with special shouldered bolts and tensioning to a dimension and ultimately a set tension to get the correct compression on the rubber. I don't expect I will have this done anytime soon. Work get's in the way of all this.
I would in the meantime source a good secondhand one. Just check to make sure the rubber isn't cracked at its edges, all the rivets are tight, and the outer ring isn't loose. It should be reasonably firm but should still have some axial springy type movement (rotational movement). I'll definitley post something when I get some progress on this......unless someone beats me to it.....hopefully lol

Post Reply